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Old 08-22-2013, 01:41 PM   #261
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I actually tend to lean toward most of your predictions that costs will not come down. I am just trying not to be completely blinded by my convictions without hard data currently available on how this will actually play out. I have read conflicting stories of rates going down in some places (California) and rates going up in other place (private industry) but all of the articles I read seem to have a very clear political agenda and I can't sort through what is fact and what is distorted.

It is also unclear to me if parties on both sides are somehow creating better/worse results in the short term on purpose to push their political ideology. Obviously it is in the best interests of a place like California that is super liberal to report a reduction in healthcare costs to validate their support of the law. It is also in the best interests of private industry to exaggerate the projections and actual effects of the changes to allow them to continue to justify opposing the bill.

I think this whole thing is going to be a complete disaster and we will be picking up the pieces for years to come but I can't be 100% sure on that until it happens.
Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146% - Forbes

Reality check--my rates went up 38% last year. Reality check #2, doctors are dropping out of the system or are consolidating to places like Kaiser, because Kaiser pays for their liability insurance and (OF COURSE) tort reform can not be found in Obamacare. They'll end up limiting Medicare patients, which means low income patients will have longer waits and less care.

I remember when Governor Ahhnold told us that the illegal alien population was artificially inflating our in-state insurance by $1,000 per family. When my friend gets hit on his bike by a drunken illegal alien and breaks his femur, I can see why. When I take my kid to the emergency room and an ESL family is being treated for the flu (or a weed-wacker accident--i've seen both), I can see why.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #262
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It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.

Thomas Sowell
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:32 PM   #263
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Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146% - Forbes

Reality check--my rates went up 38% last year. Reality check #2, doctors are dropping out of the system or are consolidating to places like Kaiser, because Kaiser pays for their liability insurance and (OF COURSE) tort reform can not be found in Obamacare. They'll end up limiting Medicare patients, which means low income patients will have longer waits and less care.
You linked an article guilty of exactly what I was talking about. The analysis is using the lowest possible quote which is rarely attainable by anyone with an average medical history. It is quite common for people to actual pay double the quote once their application is complete. Obamacare regulates a lot of those increases away so that the quote you receive should be very close to what you actually pay. So it is not an equal comparison. This is what I am talking about. Everyone has an agenda.

Your second paragraph is much more revealing though and it is more along the lines of what I am trying to find. The unintended consequences of this law will be the real issues. I can make healthcare cost whatever I want if I have complete power to regulate it. I can't control the quality of that healthcare. That will be the killer.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:34 PM   #264
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The unintended consequences of this law will be the real issues.
no, they were intended.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #265
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no, they were intended.
You're probably right but you know what I was getting at.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:40 PM   #266
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Well, I didn't want anyone to think the actual goal was to lower costs and not destory the current system, blame it on capitalism, greed, and the 1%, and then establish a gov't controlled system as a solution to the gov't imposed laws/rules that fucked a good system to begin with. you know, just to be clear.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #267
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“What do you think he’d say about Obamacare?” asked Joyner, when discussing King’s legacy.

“Oh he’d like that,” Obama asserted. “Well, because he understood that health care, health security is not a privilege, it’s something in a county as wealthy as ours, everybody should have access to.”

"Starting on Oct 1, because of Obamacare, anybody who doesnt have health insurance in this country is going to be able to get it at an affordable rate. For a lot of people it will be cheaper than your cell phone bill. And as consequence you will be getting free prevention, for check ups, and if heaven forbid you get sick, or family member gets sick, you know you have the security...and get the treatment you need."


Bullshit. I spend $60 a month on my cell phone and get **** service. I'm almost never in 4G and my internet never works when I want it to. I couldn't imagine what **** service I'd be getting from DOCTORS of all people paying much less but getting all this "free" ****.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #268
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"Starting on Oct 1, because of Obamacare, anybody who doesnt have health insurance in this country is going to be able to get it at an affordable rate. For a lot of people it will be cheaper than your cell phone bill. "


Bullshit. I spend $60 a month on my cell phone and get **** service. I'm almost never in 4G and my internet never works when I want it to. I couldn't imagine what **** service I'd be getting from DOCTORS of all people paying much less but getting all this "free" ****.
but obama said it so it must be true?

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Old 08-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #269
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You aren't black.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:44 PM   #270
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no, they were intended.

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You're probably right but you know what I was getting at.
So what does it mean when a government intentionally lies to the people in order to force its will on the people? The eventual intent is for all the supporting companies associated with Obamacare to fail to the point that a single payer is the "only choice"?

If liberals stand by "on principle" while their side wins, while the rest of America loses, they should be ready for the consequences.

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Old 09-25-2013, 10:15 AM   #271
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Obamacare's average monthly cost across U.S.: $328

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Americans will pay an average premium of $328 monthly for a mid-tier health insurance plan when the Obamacare health exchanges open for enrollment next week, and most will qualify for government subsidies to lower that price, the Obama administration said on Wednesday.

Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:24 AM   #272
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Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
what % of costs does your employer pay?

costs are going up; it's simple economics. If you can't see it or feel it personally you're blind as a bat.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #273
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70%
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:26 AM   #274
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I have the lowest health plan offered here and pay just above that average. It was cheaper in FY13, and FY12, and FY11, and 10 9 8 857734628195468ewr1111-`-`1-0wrfds...
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:29 AM   #275
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The ONLY plus to living in NJ is that we are supposed to see a decrease in premiums while almost all other states will see an increase. I don't even believe that.

How much is Obamacare REALLY going to raise your premiums? A state by state map. | AgainstCronyCapitalism.org
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:30 AM   #276
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Getting pounded here in NE. 279% increase? WTF?
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #277
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All of these numbers people throw out blow my mind for individual coverage especially if you have an employer plan. At my current and previous job I pay less than a quarter of that monthly average. My previous employer was a very small firm and my current employer is the largest professional services firm globally by both revenues and employees so I have been on both ends of the spectrum. Granted I am very young and I always choose the high deductible plan because I am very healthy but still. Holy ****.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
Obamacare's average monthly cost across U.S.: $328

Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
what % of costs does your employer pay?

costs are going up; it's simple economics. If you can't see it or feel it personally you're blind as a bat.
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70%
Most likely, that article is referencing only individual policies (versus group insurance like you get through an employer). For example, if you were a contractor, self-employed, part-time, or otherwise did not get an employer-subsidized plan.

Without government subsidies, there is no way the average low or middle income individuals (including young people) are going to be able to afford $300+ per month in health insurance. I also wasn't clear if that figure quoted was for a single person or a family plan.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:38 PM   #279
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All of these numbers people throw out blow my mind for individual coverage especially if you have an employer plan. At my current and previous job I pay less than a quarter of that monthly average. My previous employer was a very small firm and my current employer is the largest professional services firm globally by both revenues and employees so I have been on both ends of the spectrum. Granted I am very young and I always choose the high deductible plan because I am very healthy but still. Holy ****.
Add up the amount you pay + the amount your employer pays. That will be a better number to compare to an individual plan premium.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:50 PM   #280
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As an employer, I pay $709 per month per individual single employee. I am old and on Medicare which runs $366 a month when I include my Medigap and Rx plan.
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