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Originally Posted by vitamin j
(Post 1187613)
Pretty sweet progress so far. Did I read that right and you're running it on LPG or propane? I'd like to know more about that conversion, how it runs, etc.
The only way to change the injector size is to enlarge the nozzle diameter. The perfect match for the rx8 yellow injectors is a 3mm dia. nozzle Let's say that there is no huge power difference between gasoline and propane, but my setup is really basic. To have the benefits of pure propane I need another lpg ecu like the brc sequent, emmegas, or even the icom liquid injection (they guarantee more power even with stock engine, and it's green :dealwithit: )
Originally Posted by ScottyP3821
(Post 1188284)
Oh man this thread is entertainment. Thanks for all the pics. You know you are doing some interesting things with the arduino. Im surprised you are not developing things and selling them on here to fund your build. Which also led me to wonder why you didnt build your own MS. Nonethless thank you for all the work you have done here. This thread is very enjoyable. How much longer do you think the ebay manifold will last?
talking about the ms2, I simply followed the advice, most (all) of you told me to buy rev's ms2... but I was fully satisfied: it is really a great product. BTW the ebay manifold have to last at least one mounth, because I plan to build it stronger :brain: Pictures time!! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 from the left: table - launch/flatshift - valet - high/low boost the reason I put a valet switch is because I'm planning to build the engine, and for the first 1000 km the valet will be on from 2" to 3" https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 downpipe is 2.75 to 3" https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 in this photo the exhaust seems too low, but is upper than the chassis https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419111310 result: full boost at 3500 rpm (10 psi) :party: safe advance table: http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/...ps13moe07p.mp4 |
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forget the vss, I don't get why I get those values
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419186526 it's a fifth gear pull at 10 psi (170 kPa) the engine runs VERY fine, I cannot wait to dyno it again, but first I wanna build a new manifold but I can't wait :vash: |
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Originally Posted by DNA54
(Post 1191829)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419506363 http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/...psdaea9ab0.jpg |
Ouch. Burned the ground wires when engaging the starter?
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Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 1191873)
Ouch. Burned the ground wires when engaging the starter?
What was happening: casual spikes on rpm signal and boost (psi) but not on map (kpa) That was strange, in fact I saw casual duty rises without evident reason, only after checking every single parameter on megalog I found that boost psi has the same spikes as injector duty. Sometimes, during hard driving, expecially coming out from a corner at high revs and then wot, the battery light turned on (sometimes flashing) but with constant 14V with no spikes ever. Sometimes the engine died with that light on, and if I do a power cycle (turning off and on the key) all disappears and the engine ran well. I thought that the problem was bad grounds, and I rerouted the main one. I don't know where the other ecu ground is ( from ecu gnd to chassis) but since I rerouted the main one the problem seems to be vanished |
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watch the knock in:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419607673 I was tuning ebc in cl (lots to do), the battery light turned on with no reason (14 volts) and during the next pull (screened) the alternator died (darker lights), if I accelerated it misfired like with launch on and clutch depressed and tunerstudio said "offline"... turning the key off and on again (ecu reset???) resurrected the car -.-' |
I was always a bit concerned with all the knock you were registering this whole time. Is it actually pinging?
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1191944)
I was always a bit concerned with all the knock you were registering this whole time. Is it actually pinging?
the only thing I've done with the emanage blue was connect the knock sensor to a portable guitar amplifier and listen with headphones, and I could hear knock rising the advance from software... |
det cans.
the bp is a rough/noisy engine so I wouldn't be surprised it's picking up random noise, or perhaps it's just set too sensitive, but I would find out before you push this thing *edit: and you've obviously have an electrical issue too if you're pegging it like crazy on that last pull |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1191948)
det cans.
the bp is a rough/noisy engine so I wouldn't be surprised it's picking up random noise, or perhaps it's just set too sensitive, but I would find out before you push this thing *edit: and you've obviously have an electrical issue too if you're pegging it like crazy on that last pull Tonight I will do another log to see if there anyways spikes or not |
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well, I've done the log, but also opened two windows in the block...
this was #3 connecting rod https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419633049 moar carnage pics soon merry christmas... :party: |
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last log, around five minutes before buoooo CHUFF rattle rattle rattle
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419633798 and the advance table I was tuning https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419633798 I tried to set the advance to 26 degrees at 4500 rpm and 170 kPa to see if the oem knock sensor works, and... yes, it detected the knock and pulled 2 degrees. Obviously it lasted maybe half of a second, it was just a test. The windows were open at 6000 rpm btw |
So turbo no hit block, did block hit turbo?
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1192004)
So turbo no hit block, did block hit turbo?
Now I can see from side to side of the block :loser: |
so the sensor was working, and that was knock.
lol you definitely found out the hard way |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1192009)
so the sensor was working, and that was knock.
lol you definitely found out the hard way you have: new main bearing ebay rods new piston ring set oem head gasket supertech valve seals 8 spare 10:1 oem pistons in good condition another block another oil pan lots of stuff from 3 BP's your goal is 250-275 whp on the road do you: -wait two months and build with be oil pump and supertech 8.8's overbore (because money) -istantbuild with oem pump, rev limiter to 7000 and oem pistons are oem pistons good enough to handle 250 whp on the road, and maybe two trackdays a year? |
OEM pistons good for 350
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pump gas or e85?
if the answer is pump gas, then my answer is forged. if not, then stick with oem. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1192030)
pump gas or e85?
if the answer is pump gas, then my answer is forged. if not, then stick with oem. if oem pistons are really good for 300hp, I can simply limit the power down of a certain limit in sardinia 250 whp are, how can I tell... interesting :brain: and I want the car back in no time :vash: |
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on the road...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419639522 various steps of spark table "improvement" http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/...psef865b9c.jpg I know the numbers aren't real, but there's a huge difference between logs! inb4 same road, same condition, same boost: 11 psi |
Glue.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1192047)
Glue.
However, with a cool head, I decided to go with 8.8's I think it's not overbuilding, just reliability especially because I'm obviously not a good tuner :party: |
Oh snap.
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Damn, that's the second one that goes up in smoke....interesting build
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Spark table doesn't seem all that aggressive from what others have posted. Why do we think so much detonation?
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where you runnung LPG when it went bang? LPG is far more prone to knock...
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Originally Posted by tjeerd
(Post 1192103)
where you runnung LPG when it went bang? LPG is far more prone to knock...
I was running gasoline btw... |
the octane number is higher but the temperatures are way higher, I wouldnt add timing when burning LPG, I would pull...
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1192101)
Spark table doesn't seem all that aggressive from what others have posted. Why do we think so much detonation?
lol To be completely honest, I'm impressed it lasted this long :) |
I would worry about the base timing being slightly off if I was using an aggressive timing map. Not much room for error.
Is the lpg octane RON or MON or the average? |
Originally Posted by tjeerd
(Post 1192114)
the octane number is higher but the temperatures are way higher, I wouldnt add timing when burning LPG, I would pull...
When I run lpg on boost afr's are high 10's and only with ebc off (140 kPa or 5.8 psi) in fact when I log egt's I can see that are the same as running gasoline, but with 12.5 afr the downside is less power everywhere There are two ways to run lpg allofit (and use the 110 octane benefit): water/meth injection 50-50 liquid injection lpg (like vialle or icom): in this way the lpg enters in the manifold in liquid state, and his phase transition (at atmospheric pressure is a gas) absorbes heat from the sistem very quickly. The main difference between liquid lpg injection and gasoline is that the excees of gasoline remains liquid during the combustion and becomes gas (substracting heat) only when temperature rise enough, preserving the Al of the head and piston from melting When I have the car back on the road and tuned, I wanna try this system. If I broke another engine, it means that w/i is a better choice. If it will survive, well, we discover a new, greener and cheaper than e85 method to run allofit:party: because all this is a game for me, it's only a car! |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1192124)
That's just 1 piece of the puzzle and even then that's not a conservative map. Also looks like he was near the limit. Also he was clearly knocking. Also he was clearly having issues.
lol To be completely honest, I'm impressed it lasted this long :) I'm not sure if it was really knock or background noises.. when I (voluntarily) caused knock at 4500 rpm (160 kpa) the knock in log was exactly the same, with no peaks, but the ecu pulled istantly two degrees of timing, and the "knock" light turned on this was pretty strange... but with 26 degrees of spark advance at 160 kPa I'm sure the oil escaped from the bearing causing a direct-hit :fael:
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1192125)
I would worry about the base timing being slightly off if I was using an aggressive timing map. Not much room for error.
Is the lpg octane RON or MON or the average? the mon/ron of standard propane selled in usa is 90-110, but is 90%+ pure what I use is 97%+. customs laboratory checks ordinarily ron levels, and is usually 105-108 |
well in that case you likely simply exceeded the torque limit of the oem noodle rods
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So when is the new motor going in...?
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Originally Posted by DNA54
(Post 1192131)
Got it
When I run lpg on boost afr's are high 10's and only with ebc off (140 kPa or 5.8 psi) in fact when I log egt's I can see that are the same as running gasoline, but with 12.5 afr the downside is less power everywhere There are two ways to run lpg allofit (and use the 110 octane benefit): water/meth injection 50-50 liquid injection lpg (like vialle or icom): in this way the lpg enters in the manifold in liquid state, and his phase transition (at atmospheric pressure is a gas) absorbes heat from the sistem very quickly. The main difference between liquid lpg injection and gasoline is that the excees of gasoline remains liquid during the combustion and becomes gas (substracting heat) only when temperature rise enough, preserving the Al of the head and piston from melting When I have the car back on the road and tuned, I wanna try this system. If I broke another engine, it means that w/i is a better choice. If it will survive, well, we discover a new, greener and cheaper than e85 method to run allofit:party: because all this is a game for me, it's only a car! |
Originally Posted by ScottyP3821
(Post 1192141)
So when is the new motor going in...?
tomorrow I will know if the head survived ( I hope so...), and on monday I will go to the machine shop with the spare block to see if it is usable with 84mm pistons. If yes and yes, I can build the engine in one-two mounths if not and yes two-three mounths and so on money :vash: |
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ok, little update:
the spare block is usable with oversized +1mm supertech pistons. The head is gone. spare block going at the machine shop https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 driver side window https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 passenger side window https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 I found half of the piston with rings on it in the cylinder, but without the rod lol https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 my neighbour's cats this morning: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1419929834 |
Your neighbor has a bouquet of cats as the centerpiece for his table.
That's a classic rod failure but I think the block will be fine. A little JB Weld and some gentle honing should make it like new. |
:laugh:
now that is some proper carnage |
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quick update: I'm building my first 4-1 manifold using china flanges
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420227479 I also ordered another BP head from England |
keep it up man, sick build. I never knew muffler can blow up like that.
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That manifold and collector look fantastic. Nice work.
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weld the 4-1 was a real pita, i hope is the hardest part...
before-after diameter: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420286177 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420286177 |
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well, maybe it was the easyest part...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420318003 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420318003 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420318003 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420318003 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420318003 the T3 flange has to be ported, it will be the last thing before fit |
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very cool
this is the way this manifold should have been built from the get-go |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1194077)
very cool
this is the way this manifold should have been built from the get-go |
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not welded yet (except n°1), just finished the root
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 and... finished! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1420912143 |
Looks awesome. hope it holds up for you.
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looking good!
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From that angle it looks like it might touch the hood!
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1195846)
From that angle it looks like it might touch the hood!
I thought it too, but it have a little bit less of two inches of clearance actually |
Id be more worried about it clearing the valve cover vent.
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great work.
now mill the flanges which are likely both warped. |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1195873)
Id be more worried about it clearing the valve cover vent.
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1195874)
great work.
now mill the flanges which are likely both warped. |
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Wait did that happen before or after working on this new manifold?
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I think he posted pics of the motor he blew with the old manifold already.
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