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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 08-29-2006, 11:04 PM   #61
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Just found this post which points to BOV purchase sources:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4202

More searching... how and where to hook up a boost gauge... w/pic!:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ighlight=gauge
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:04 PM   #62
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sam,

my turbo is clocked like the original BEGI/FM kits. yours will be 180 degrees from mine, how BEGI and FM do it now. i haven't finished the installation on this kit, i'm still prepping the car and re-familiarizing myself with the Link ECU. my greddy kit was heavily modded before i removed it.

i just took this pic. look at it...this is how FM and BEGI run their coolnt lines. the turbo coolant lines run over the top of the PS pump, or around to the right:
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:10 PM   #63
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KFJ, that pic is perfect, just like the last one. Man, it would be awesome if you could do a vBGarage with all those.

BRG, I added that auction to my watch list, thanks.

Rican, you're set on getting me to buy a loud BOV. From a pure performance standpoint and based on what people say about an OEM Bosch unit, I really can't go wrong. They work great, are quiet, and are dirt cheap. I love the effort though!!!

Also, a few of the Flying Miata pages, like how to tap the oilpan are no longer there.

OH YAH, I almost forgot to ask about any gaskets. I probably need one for the manifold and DP(both ends)... what else?

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Old 08-29-2006, 11:31 PM   #64
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Old 08-29-2006, 11:44 PM   #65
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Great link... I read about Hakuna in another thread, but couldn't find it (because it was form M.net).
It looks like that was just a sleeve designed for a rubber hose. I know the oil feed line should be braided, but it doesn't look like the return does. Does it. At around $25 a line, you could spend over $100 to go full braided for the 4 lines.
The do-it-right part of me says go full braided, but the $1700 budget says the water lines at least are going to be hose. I assume section of standard radiator hose will work as long as I route it not to touch the turbine.

I've also decided about mounting a boost gauge. I'm going to place it on top of the steering colum... slightly offset left so it should just cover up the 7k-8k range on the tach. I need a really small gauge... it doesn't even need to light up... I hate bright gauges. I think VDO and Autometer are the popular choices.

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Old 08-29-2006, 11:55 PM   #66
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You are correct. Braided is overkill, but less worries. I went braided after trying to help a buddy change his rubber oil return line. I had another buddy lose a coolant line and I've read about them failing and cracking. It's not common, but it does happen.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:46 AM   #67
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Just wanted to Add that $25 a line is worth it imho to eliminate another problem out of my head, i'm going braided oil lines (Naturally) http://www.turbo-supply.com/page/page/1027429.htm

But also want braided water lines, good thread btw and good luck with the install, i know finding out all the info is a pain, but its great to learn and if you find / read about it yourself not only will it stick in your head for longer but you will feel like your have achived more
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:17 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
KFJ,

Rican, you're set on getting me to buy a loud BOV. From a pure performance standpoint and based on what people say about an OEM Bosch unit, I really can't go wrong. They work great, are quiet, and are dirt cheap. I love the effort though!!!

I like loud, you should hear my exhuast ...LOUD! you can hear me a couple of blocks away....not always a good thing , but I plan to get it fixed soon
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:39 PM   #69
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Rubber hose on water lines is fine but for my money the oil seems to degrade the rubber hoses to quickly for peice of mind braided should be used on both the supply and feed lines. i get mine for about 50 bucks a line at the local parker store.
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:00 PM   #70
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:23 PM   #71
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I just spent the last half-hour looking around my engine bay trying to find all this stuff we've been talking about... and I found them. Go ahead and laugh...

All right, the only thing I couldn't see was the oil feed tap. I could see where the dipstick goes into the pan, but could not see the tap from under the car. I'm still searching for a good pic of it, I know I've seen one.

Thanks OG, just added those two sites to my ever growing TurboStuff favorites. However, I'm tired of looking at five different sites to piece these line kits together. I think as soon as I actually get the turbo, I'm going to piece my lines together based on the connections that come on the turbo. Hell, why buy lines now when the turbo I buy might come with them as part of the deal.

I've PM'd about half a dozen people over on the SR20 forums w/T25's for sale. Looks like I will probably be able to score one for about $120.

I found this Boost Gauge that I really like. I don't need one that goes up to 30psi, and this one will be easy to read mounted on the steering column: http://www.boostcontroller.com/index...2%26sale%3Dyes
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:28 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
I found this Boost Gauge that I really like. I don't need one that goes up to 30psi, and this one will be easy to read mounted on the steering column: http://www.boostcontroller.com/index...2%26sale%3Dyes
Nice gauge, but you should really get one that shows vacuum also. It is a very good diagnostic tool.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:36 PM   #73
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you want a boost/vac gauge, look for a 30~hg/15psi


maybe something like this:
http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugede...id=3243&sid=12

or this:
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?...Series=Series1

reading your vacuum is just as important as reading your boost. What are you a supercharger guy? next you'll want to boost 8psi without an intercooler or fueling.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:53 PM   #74
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here are some of the pieces of my kit that im putting together.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:00 PM   #75
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Rican, nice little pile of goodies!

Braineak: I didn't know it was that important... all right, back to searching. I think one of the Autometers is a good choice like you linked. I'll find one of those I like the looks of and get one that reads vacuum to... this one is pretty sexy. http://www.boostcontroller.com/index...category%3D145 I like the fact that the divisions between the numbers are large... you can probably tell pretty accurate down to the 1/4lb or so how much boost you're putting out.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:25 PM   #76
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yeah thats a nice looking gauge! I like them clean like that.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:22 AM   #77
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Default Long Long Post...

All right, I’ve been working on this post for about ½ hour... it's basically a summary of the entire thread. If you've been keeping up with me over the past couple of days, thanks a lot. My last few questions are listed at the bottom if you just want to scroll down... or happy reading.

Turbo: SR20det T25. It should start to spool around 2k and reach full boost at 3k. They’re dirt cheap. Every dude who imports a JDM SR20det takes the stock turbo off and puts on a T28 or T3. These things go for $100-$150 and are usually in great shape. I will need to clock the compressor so the outlet faces down which might present a wastegate placement issue, but I won’t know until I get it as I haven’t actually ever seen one in person. They are water cooled, oil lubed, and should have no problem getting me the 8/9psi I need.

Manifold: From Begi, bought a T25 mani who still had a couple on the shelf (probably all gone now but you can call. $266 shipped). The Begi as far as I can tell has never had a single complaint about it. It should last forever. All the other options I searched led me to “issues”. Plus, I think at some point or another we all owe Corky a little of our money for the awesome work he’s done for the hobby in general.

DP: Still working on it… Tony should be getting back to me shortly w/his options or I’m pretty sure I’m again going with Begi. The DP they’re selling now looks like pure sex. Wastegate diverter tube and beautiful welds. I’ve still got to solve my test pipe need and how to hook the whole thing up to my 2.25” Borla Duals.

MBC: Decided to skip this for the initial install. I see more people with low-boost systems not using MBC’s than using them. I know I can get a Hallman off of Boostcontroller.com for $50, but I’m going to wait a few months. I’m sure my tuner will have an opinion on this, we’ll see what he thinks one can get me after I’m all tuned up w/o one.

IC/Piping: Bought the standard 28x7x2.5 eBay special that a dozen other guys around here are using. It’s cheap, it works fine, it fits, and the pipe routing couldn’t be easier. In one side and out the other. I had originally planned on an over-the-rad setup, but the engineering involved in cutting the hood or moving the radiator doesn’t fit with my DIY For Dummies approach. I’ll go with a standard piping arrangement around the outside lower corners of the radiator. The piping itself is still up for debate. I’m thinking about one of the $100 eBay universal sets… one with more bends than straight pieces.

Intake: My intake should look almost identical to Braineaks and a few other around here. I’m going to run a 180* bend out of the turbo and point the filter at the firewall where I’ve already got a hole cut into the space that leads to the grated area under the wipers for my current DIY CAI. This is in conjunction w/my RX7 AFM. I’m also going to make a heat shield (again not reinventing the wheel) to isolate the air on that side of the engine bay.

BOV: Although the temptation almost got to me, I went with the original plan of a quiet BOV. I was pretty certain at the beginning of the project that I would need to recirc. However, at this time I’m fairly confident that I can overcome the idle issue with a one-way check valve and go VTA. This saves some engineering and hose routing and still gets me a little “whoosh”. An OEM Bosch BOV for an Audi/Porsche/DSM, pretty much whatever will do, and they’re around $25. The boost/vacuum source for the BOV is on the top of the throttle body. I do not have cruise control, so one of mine simply has a plug on it. The other routes under the manifold and connects to the black coffee can on the fender.

WATER: After much hair pulling and having about 20 iExplorer windows open at once, I’ve decided the best (read: easiest but just fine and cheap) is to go with the 3/8” hose that OG linked from the McMasters website. It think it will take about four feet of line which should be about $25. That hose will last as long as I need it to and the turbo will probably come with fittings on it that I can slide the hose onto and secure with a hoseclamp. Tapping the water source off of the pump neck is a simple job, but routing the lines around the turbo will take a little "carefulness."

OIL: The feed line needs to be braided but the drain line does not. I’m going to get one of the 4an Feed Kits and 10an Drain Kits from turbo-supply.com and be done with it. Total for all water/oil lines +/-$70 and they’ll last as long as I own the car and I can stop worrying about it. Taking a feed off the block requires a M10x1.5 metric to AN fitting. Tapping the oil pan for the drain has been extensively documented and just requires you to go slow and be careful.

Fuel: The Begi AFPR appears to be the Miata DIY standard device by which all others are compared. I don’t know anything about tuning it yet, but as far as mechanical fuel control, I don’t think you can do better. This in conjunction with the 1.8 injectors and a Walbro 190lph HP in tank pump appear to be the simplest way to get enough properly metered fuel into the engine. There are a few variations on this theme, but you can’t argue with the ease if you’re just after 180hp… and it’s cheap. A dual feed fuel rail seems like the way to go. It costs about $10 and might just save you an engine. It’s not really worth debating. I’m doing it.

Spark: Bipes, nothing to discuss. It’s really the only choice. Spark plugs… see #2 below.

Gauge: Looking for a small white gauge to place on top of the steering column offset enough left that I can see the idiot lights and covers up the red-range 7-8k on the tach. I want white so I don’t have to wire it for light and it only needs to read up to 15psi BOOST AND VACUUM. The ones that read up to 30psi have no place in my setup and with a gauge that only reads 15psi, you can get a more accurate eye on how much boost is there. I see some 15psi gauges that I can discern the needle down to the 1/4psi. You just can’t get that with a 30psi gauge.

ISSUES STILL OUTSTANDING:
#1: On some cars, I see the breather line on the valve cover above the turbo has been replaced by a small filter and no line. On other cars and what has been recommended is that I route a line from that breather port into the intake between the MAF and turbo? What does that port really do and does it need a line or can I get away with a small breather?
#2: Still no word from anybody on 1step colder plugs. Do I need them and what do they do for me? If you say yes, I will buy them. I’m good like that.
#3: What are the size of the stock vacuum lines running around the engine bay. If I just wanted to buy a 20ft length of tube to cut up for the various runs, what size is recommended?
#4: What intercooler pipes to buy. EBay universal kit? Custom fab at a local shop?
#5: Cheap hi-flo conical filter. K&N is nice, but I can do just as good for cheaper. Recommend a brand please.

180RWHP for dummies continues….
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:33 AM   #78
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Check out what I made. I hope you can see the text boxes. At some point I'll do one of these for every applicable component on the engine that involves a turbo project... once I know what they all are.
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:26 AM   #79
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I'll make a few comments and suggestions. Keeping in mind that these are only my opinions and not to be taken as gospel, or even correct

MBC: Cheap cheap cheap. Do it. Many reports on helping the turbo spool quicker than just connecting the vacuum line direct to the waste gate can. I've had one on my car since I installed the turbo.

CAI: There is so much heat added into the system because of the turbo I don't really think sucking in cooler air is going to help much. Especially if you are running an IC. Probably very little return for the amount of effort.

BOV: I'd personally recirculate it. You can get the idle issue solved with a check valve, but you still may have trouble when lifting or shifting. When I was configured VTA I would attempt to feather the throttle from WOT to 3/4 and would get some bucking. Once I plumbed it back to the intake the issue was completely resolved. Of course there are people who don't have this issue. It really takes very little effort, and just a couple of bucks for a pipe nipple, JB weld and 1" heater hose. Routing the hose is simple.

Oil feed: An alternative to the M10 to AN fitting is using a banjo fitting and bolt. I was unable to source the AN fitting locally, but was easily able to find the banjo hardware easily. Many OEM oil feeds are done this way (including the 323 GTX). Something to consider. I personally would go with the most common setup incase I had to replace it on short notice, but then again I'm a little gun shy on the subject, due to having my greddy part break.

Boost Gauge: I've had two autometer gauges that were inaccurate at best. One was 4psi off, the one I'm currently using is about 2psi. The vacuum side is also inaccurate as well. I rarely look at mine anymore. My boost control is very good and consistant, so I'm not too worried about spiking. It was useful when I had an exhaust leak at the turbo flange.

Issues:

#1: People seem to do it both ways. I have mine fed back into the intake just before the turbo. I see that there is a little bit of oil residue but nothing I'm going to worry about. If it becomes an issue I'm going to try an inline fuel filter and see how that works. Some really are against venting the crankcase to atmosphere, it is supposed to help the turbo drain. Me, I think it'll work either way.

#2: 1 step colder is supposed to help with detonation, by reducing temps. There is plenty of reading on the exact reasons why, google and m.net are your friends. Gapping the plugs closer helps make more reliable spark when the cylinder pressures get higher. Both of these are cheap insurance even at low boost.

#3: I took a peice of vacuum line to the local autoparts store and found something close. Not sure of the exact size, but I do know there are a couple of different sizes.

#5: I have a K&N knock off, Ractive I think. Seems to do the job, should probably clean it these days.

Again, just my experiences and observations.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:10 AM   #80
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MBC:Don't skip it, they had be had on the cheap for about $15. When you plumb directly into wastgate the swingarm starts to open as the boost increases, untill it reaches that magical point where no more boost is to be made. Not only will this not allow for any adjustable other than tigthening the wastegate actuator rod, but you loose spool! Throw a MBC in the mix and you can keep the swingarm closed as long as possible. This means your exhaust does not get wasted and it spools the turbine faster, untill you reach that magical point on the MBC where it dumps open, this then makes the wastegate reach that magical point where it opens the swingarm. The first time on the dyno I had leftover time so I was playing around; with a MBC i was making 160hp if I removed it at the same boost level I couldn't make more than 145hp and the spool was signifigantly slower.

ISSUES STILL OUTSTANDING:
#1: On some cars, I see the breather line on the valve cover above the turbo has been replaced by a small filter and no line. On other cars and what has been recommended is that I route a line from that breather port into the intake between the MAF and turbo? What does that port really do and does it need a line or can I get away with a small breather?
removing the breather line and installing a little filter effectivly introduces a vacuum leak. Granted it not enough to really do anything, I dont think I can even read it on my vacuum gauge. But what it really does is allow unmetered air into the system. Since will give you a leaner condition. On top of that, the breather line is also important in oil drainage. When it's placed on the intake the engine sucks out of that line, which is directly above the oilpan, which is connected to your turbo. Since the drain on your turbo is gravity based, you'll have yourself a small vacuum pulling the oil out of the turbo. If you don't believe me; plumb a boost source into the breather line...see what happens.
#2: Still no word from anybody on 1step colder plugs. Do I need them and what do they do for me? If you say yes, I will buy them. Iím good like that.
1 step colder for every 75-100hp, so yes get some.

The stock 1.6 used BKR6E-11 plugs. The 1.8 uses BKR5E-11 plugs. So if you have a 1.6 you'll want a heat range 7 with ngk plugs (BKR7E-11) and if you have a 1.8 you can just buy 1.6 plugs.

You can also get autolite 3922s (a lot easier to find) for a one step colder plug for the 1.6. And for FI you'll want to gap them between .030 and .035

If you search for a 2001 Saab 9-5 Turbo 3.0LV6 B308E, you should be able to use search results to help find a plug, i also suggest using sparkplugs.com and their cross reference tool to help find some matches.

Different plugs have different heat range systems. NGKs are colder as the number increases, but other plugs may be a step warmer as the number increases, be careful when choosing.
#3: What are the size of the stock vacuum lines running around the engine bay. If I just wanted to buy a 20ft length of tube to cut up for the various runs, what size is recommended?
3/16" is a little tight so 1/4" may be in order....
#4: What intercooler pipes to buy. EBay universal kit? Custom fab at a local shop?

Jcwhitney.com has assorted bends...basically figure out what you might need, buy more, and return what you don't use. You can buy bends that have a 90* & 45* in them and length of straight. Cut them up and you'll have yourself a party.
#5: Cheap hi-flo conical filter. K&N is nice, but I can do just as good for cheaper. Recommend a brand please.
I like the K&N RU-5111, I've sold a bunch to members here. I don't trust non-oiled aftermarket filters. And sponge filters do a worse job of filtering than the K&N does.
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