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The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.

Old Jul 6, 2017 | 12:07 PM
  #441  
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You replaced the crank sensor on the crank pulley? I believe it's the cam sensor on the back of the intake cam that's notorious for overheating and dieing.
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 12:21 PM
  #442  
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Originally Posted by wackbards
You replaced the crank sensor on the crank pulley? I believe it's the cam sensor on the back of the intake cam that's notorious for overheating and dieing.
Yes I did replace both sensors. And it only happens when it gets to hot I guess. Cooling it down with frozen water didn't help :P. Is there any fix for this.

Wackbards, weren't you the one also having issues with the tach output ? I believe it had something to do with the jumper? Is your tach working now ?

Kind Regards,
Cedric
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 12:24 PM
  #443  
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I had a bad cam sensor, and a bad tune, both of which are resolved now. I did wire it and jumper the pnppro as documented in my post a few posts up in this thread. I have tach signal.
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 12:26 PM
  #444  
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Originally Posted by wackbards
I had a bad cam sensor, and a bad tune, both of which are resolved now. I did wire it and jumper the pnppro as documented in my post a few posts up in this thread. I have tach signal.
The bad tune, was it the basemap ? and are you on Rising or Falling edge now ?

Thank you for your responses.
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 01:02 PM
  #445  
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My map wasn't a base map, and my tune issues were just bad cranking fueling. I don't remember if it's set to rising or falling edge. None of those should make your car die suddenly when hot. That sounds like cam sensor failure that lots of people have experienced.
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 01:46 PM
  #446  
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Originally Posted by wackbards
My map wasn't a base map, and my tune issues were just bad cranking fueling. I don't remember if it's set to rising or falling edge. None of those should make your car die suddenly when hot. That sounds like cam sensor failure that lots of people have experienced.
Thank you for your answere. I'll try and fix my tach problem now.
Just a quick side not/question: I noticed that my oil pressure keeps going to max on accel. And after driving lets say 10 minutes it goes until a little bit before 6kg/cm3. On cruising its at 4kg/cm3.
I use the 1.6 oil pressure sensor. Is it normal for a 1.8 to have higher oilpressure ?

Kind Regards,
Cedric
Old Jul 6, 2017 | 02:29 PM
  #447  
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Originally Posted by wackbards
I had a bad cam sensor, and a bad tune, both of which are resolved now. I did wire it and jumper the pnppro as documented in my post a few posts up in this thread. I have tach signal.
Ok so I installed the jumper. In test mode I have a working tachometer but when I try to start the car it does nothing. Also the fuel pump does not prime and the composite logger only shows signals for 2 engine cycles or so.
This is really strange. Any ideas why this is happening?

Kind Regards,
Cedric
Old Jul 7, 2017 | 05:56 PM
  #448  
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Have you looked into the main relay?

Main relay will cause the fuel pump not to prime, but it also powers virtually everything in the engine. So if possible, I'd check for power at the injectors, and see if anything changes.
Old Jul 11, 2017 | 05:32 AM
  #449  
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Originally Posted by ihiryu
Have you looked into the main relay?

Main relay will cause the fuel pump not to prime, but it also powers virtually everything in the engine. So if possible, I'd check for power at the injectors, and see if anything changes.

Ok so I figured out quite a lot of problems. The sensors have been behaving absolutely superb recently without ever having the need to pull over and replace them with my spare ones.
The reason why the fuel pump didn't prime is because the wires on the ecu connector for the Cam angle sensor and the cranck angle sensor weren't making a good enough connection ( when the engine ran, I played with the wires, wiggeling the around, and noticed that as soon as I even slightly touched the cam and crank sensor wires the engine hikkuped or stalled.) so I put on new pins and it now works great.
I can now drive for 20 minutes on the highway without a problem.

Another issue was that the engine wouldn't turn of when I turned the key to the off position. The previous owner jumped a wire from the 12v wire of the ecu to the engine relay under the driver side dash. After removing that the engine would shut off as normal.

Thank you sooo much for helping me. It's a pleasure to be in this community.

Kind Regards,
Cedric
Old Jul 11, 2017 | 06:57 AM
  #450  
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It's always a mess when others have made unknown modifications to a harness. Good work figuring it out.
Old Jul 12, 2017 | 02:46 PM
  #451  
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Can I just drop the entire front sub-frame with engine, transmission and steering rack from an NB2 and plop it into an NA shell?
I don't have a problem re-wiring what's needed, but are there any mechanical issues I would be facing?
Also: If I swap over the rear sub-frame, can I reuse my NB exhaust? I understand I'll need different headers, but my midpipe and exhaust should fit- correct?
Old Jul 12, 2017 | 03:15 PM
  #452  
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Originally Posted by stefanst
Can I just drop the entire front sub-frame with engine, transmission and steering rack from an NB2 and plop it into an NA shell?
I don't have a problem re-wiring what's needed, but are there any mechanical issues I would be facing?
Also: If I swap over the rear sub-frame, can I reuse my NB exhaust? I understand I'll need different headers, but my midpipe and exhaust should fit- correct?
No on reusing the exhaust. At least not without major modification. The body and hang points are completely different between the NA and NB.
Old Jul 12, 2017 | 06:29 PM
  #453  
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Originally Posted by shuiend
No on reusing the exhaust. At least not without major modification. The body and hang points are completely different between the NA and NB.
I thought the muffler part is just suspended from the rear subframe. May be wrong though.
Old Jul 30, 2017 | 08:40 PM
  #454  
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Originally Posted by wkndracr
This may or may not help your situation, but I swapped a 99 engine into my 93 initially using the 93 computer, using the old CAS. I later switched to a diypnp (microsquirt), but still kept the CAS (4G63). When I later swapped to a VVT motor, I kept the CAS to keep things simple, and used a an extra output to trigger the VVT on/off, like VTEC. I eventually added the Vvtuner, and ran the cam and crank sensor solely to the vvtuner and kept the CAS connected to the diypnp.
Can anybody verify this is acceptable for a VVT head on a NA8 block? My DIYPNP was happy with just the CAS. Will megasquirt get any benefit from seeing cam and crank signal?

EDIT: I know it's redundant, I'm just worried about using the VVTuner's pass through mode or CAS simulation as I have seen reports of these features giving others problems.
Old Jul 30, 2017 | 08:44 PM
  #455  
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Its acceptable but depending on how much power you're leaving on the table with a conservative spark map you could be leaving decent power on the table. You get spark scatter with the CAS which means you have to run less timing to avoid knocking, get rid of the scatter and you can run more timing.
Old Sep 5, 2017 | 05:17 AM
  #456  
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Can I get you guys to give me a quick check through before I tear into my Miata and do something stupid. I'll outline everything I'm going to do to swap it. Literally everything. So if you don't see a step here, assume I'm an idiot, because I am.

1. Swap over Water Pump, Pulley, and Alternator + belt. (I have a lose nose 1.6L). FM says this should work.
2. Use the motor mount brackets that came on my VVT with my 1.6L Hybrid motor mounts.
3. Fabricate a bracket to put my 1.6L coils on the VVT engine. (No wiring needed). Some trimming of rubber boot needed. Will eventually upgrade to LS2 coils.
4. Install FM throttle cable adapter bracket.
5. Use the 1.8L VTPS. Re-wire it in place of my current Bosch VTPS.
6. Use supplied 1.8L header until I throw on a RB header or turbo manifold.
7. Drill + tap and plug up oil drain for future turbo use.
8. Install 99-00 fuel rail + my 90-93 FPR. Route new 5/16 fuel line above intake manifold.
9. Run 1 +12V power wire to VVT solenoid and 1 wire to my Megasquirt VVT control.
10. Lengthen CAS.
11. Install 1.6L Coolant temp sensor.
12. Put 1.6L Oil Pressure sender onto VVT motor.
13. Drop in engine and have fun.

I tried not to miss a single thing no matter how big or small. Can anyone give that list a quick once over?

Extra info:
Car is a 91 NA Lose nose
MS3X ECU
Already wired for sequential injection
Motor going in is a 2003 VVT w/ VCTS manifold

Last edited by Goingnowherefast; Sep 5, 2017 at 05:43 AM.
Old Sep 5, 2017 | 06:24 PM
  #457  
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1.8 flywheel is different isn't it? Clutch too?
Old Sep 5, 2017 | 08:42 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by 90 Turbo
1.8 flywheel is different isn't it? Clutch too?
Yes, but you either need to use the whole clutch, pressure plate + flywheel from the 1.6 car or the 1.8 car. As long as you use all three you are good.
Old Sep 6, 2017 | 12:42 AM
  #459  
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Might as well upgrade to 1.8 or better injectors now, though with full ECU control the 1.6 ones will probably be fine.
Consider a coolant reroute while everything is out.
You say lengthen CAS, are you planning on installing it? You can run the ECU off of it but without running the leads for the crank sensor you will have zero VVT control.
Get a VICS intake manifold from a 99 as well if you have the budget for it, and run the wire for it also.
I'm a bad reader or something so even though I read the first post about 50 times in the months leading to my swap I still forgot to transfer the injector harness to the new engine and spent half a day trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do with all these weird connectors before I realized I have to make them go away.
At the very least clean your engine bay thoroughly without engine or repaint it, and touch up top of subframe with spray paint if scratched up.
If you've never done a swap before, have plenty of time and a helper for actually taking out the old engine and putting in the new at the very least.
Old Sep 6, 2017 | 01:18 AM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by silverstorm
Might as well upgrade to 1.8 or better injectors now, though with full ECU control the 1.6 ones will probably be fine.
Consider a coolant reroute while everything is out.
You say lengthen CAS, are you planning on installing it? You can run the ECU off of it but without running the leads for the crank sensor you will have zero VVT control.
Get a VICS intake manifold from a 99 as well if you have the budget for it, and run the wire for it also.
I'm a bad reader or something so even though I read the first post about 50 times in the months leading to my swap I still forgot to transfer the injector harness to the new engine and spent half a day trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do with all these weird connectors before I realized I have to make them go away.
At the very least clean your engine bay thoroughly without engine or repaint it, and touch up top of subframe with spray paint if scratched up.
If you've never done a swap before, have plenty of time and a helper for actually taking out the old engine and putting in the new at the very least.
I assume this is directed to me? Yeah so I'll be swapping over my Flow Force 640cc injectors over so that should be covered.
just may pick up a coolant reroute while I'm at it. It would certainly be pretty easy to install while the engine is out that's for sure.
As for manifolds I found a VICS for $140 and Flat Tops can be had for about $300. I'm wondering if it's just worth it to go straight for the flat top. Regardless, I plan on using the VCTS for initial start-up and switching later. I guess it just needs a little bit of trimming to fit the fuel rail.
The CAS I plan on using the NB's sensor so I can use VVT. I will just be extending the OEM 4-wire harness, and splicing it to work with the NB sensors.
Oh I plan to give it a thorough cleaning when that engines out

Thanks for the help and thank you for your service!

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