glade

iTrader: (2)

Quoted because my response got deleted.

Lord knows, if it's not what FTB says, it's garbage, and here's sixty ******* pages saying why he's right, and your not.

Yes, the kits initial photos were ****. Yes, they leave something's to be desired.

Why not use parts of their kits and build one better? kinda like....oh I don't know, half the goddamn turbo kits on here.

Corey

I figured that was the case. I don't think I've ever run into a DI motor that was done any other way. Have you?

I agree. The LLT may have some advantage when seeking more power due to the exhaust ports/integrated manifold situation. Honda has J-series engines that use integrated exhaust manifolds...they'd be perfect for turbo just like honda has done with the LMP2 motor...

I had decided to not post pictures of those two engines you mentioned because it wasn't worth the keystrokes. He has his preferences and that's obviously ok and his mind is not going to be changed -- also ok. I don't have to make him like me, my car or how I modify it.

I just sent an email with this very premise.

Full_Tilt_Boogie

iTrader: (1)

You dont have to spend that much do do an LS swap. Finding a cheap LS would be just like finding a cheap Honda V6. Some people want an arm and a leg for a running swap, but you can find deals.
Ive seen complete, running LS swapped Miatas go for less than 15k.

The difference is the end result is a bigger, better engine, with a transmission and differential that will actually take the abuse.

Ive made myself perfectly clear about my thoughts on the K20 swap, but that makes tremendously more sense than this swap. Even with a built up K24 at least the miata trans has a chance of surviving.
A J35 is going to break 5 speeds and that is assuming this super shady swap kit even works reliably.

You need to settle down. There is nothing personal about this, so there is no reason for you to get all upset.

You are right that the fact that Honda is running raced-out turbo J series and Ill take your word on their race record because I honestly dont know.
What I do know is that they are SOHC, with VTEC on only the intake valves, and have the exhaust manifolds cast into the head. Im not saying it doesnt work, but Im willing to bet their race engines have to be based on productions engines and that is the only reason they are using that V6, and not the older DOHC, dual VTEC, super high rod ratio, C series V6.

It is all really besides the point though.

The real point is this swap doesnt make sense, the kit is made out of photoshop and I would rather have a turbo BP than this goofy hybrid V6.

Roda

So, months have gone by, and MiniTec now has some actual pictures of parts on their site, and even a shitty video of someone driving like an asshat in a J swapped NB. I still think the LFX swap is "better", but this one comes in a lot cheaper by the time you factor in the trans and diff. So, in the interest of furthering the discussion, I sent MiniTec an email and asked them a few questions... their responses are in bold:



1. Is the steering geometry changed with your subframe (i.e. was the steering rack moved), and if so, how? We do move the steering rack location approximately 1/2” to gain clearance for the oil pan. It really is unnoticeable.

2. Does the swap use a standard Miata flywheel/clutch, or are modified/hybrid units required? It uses a combination of a Honda B series flywheel, pressure plate and throwout bearing, and a Miata 1.8 clutch disc.

3. Is there any loss of ground clearance? The ground clearance is a little less than stock with this setup. About 4.5”

4. Your new photos show cast exhaust manifolds. Are these a stock Honda manifold? If so, from which J series engine? These are custom pipes. The manifold is stock Honda J series that has been milled to fit the block tighter.

5. Will you sell the swap kit parts individually (i.e., starter, water neck, exhaust manifolds, etc.) The basic kit is the JV6 Kit here: JV6 Miata KitÂ- SuperFastMi

6. What is the cost for the modified intake manifold? If you supply your intake, the labor cost is $325.

Discuss...

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Wait MiniTec? The VTEC Mini guys?



Still wouldn't do it, but a little more curious now.

Roda

Yup, that MiniTec.

cyotani

iTrader: (8)

Their website is very vague. It would be good if they could post up the install manual to get a better fit of what is required for this kit.

natedawg

Biggest turnoff I saw was the lack of quality with the kit.

I'd go k24 kit. Dave's K kit quality is much better and the fact he doesn't move the rack makes it a instant winner.

Roda

The stuff shown in the initial pics was definitely crap. Pictures of actual delivered parts have looked better, but I still haven't seen a pic of a customer subframe. The lack of real info on the website, and even the vagueness in their response to my email is kind of irritating as well. The quality of their products for the Minis seems to be very good, so I hope it's just a startup issue.

Any suspension/steering experts want to comment on the "1/2"" relocation of the steering rack?

EErockMiata

i hate them for the font on their website.

KMiata

Thank you, we aimed to go above and beyond on quality. Also its 100% made in the USA.

When we first started talking to Shandelle at V8R about fabricating various subframe designs, he told me that in their experience moving the steering rack never worked well for them. Do to this, and the overall feedback from the Miata community, we revamped our design to keep it all OEM.

1/2" of movement can be significant, but it really depends on which direction. Especially on a lowered car (which is almost everyone). If you run a track car at 4" pinch weld height like ours, dropping the rack 1/2" more would be bad news.

Just my obviously biased two cents, but thought I'd share since we played around with this so much initially. Carry on...

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

4.5" less ground clearance. Da fuq?

glade

iTrader: (2)

I read it as the car as it sits has 4.5" ground clearance. Otherwise, at my ride height, itd be less than 1 " under compression

Roda

It would have been nice if they specified the direction in their answer...

I'm really impressed with your kit, but I'm just not going to do a 4cyl if I do a swap. This and the LFX are my two contenders.


Nice, clear response, huh?

I'm pretty sure (I would hope, anyway) they mean 4.5" total ground clearance, which is absolutely meaningless without knowing the ride height of the car.

See my comment on vague responses above...

unk577

Their subframe looks terrible, materials, welds, etc. Moving the steering rack down 1/2" inch on a lowered car can have significant effects in bump steer, though their test mule looks to be close to stock height.
As posted in another thread, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the engine being mounted by the adapter plate between the trans and motor. That's a lot of additional stress in the motormounts and adapter/bellhousing.

I refuse to buy a fabricated product with welds that look like ****. If I wanted it that way I'd built it myself

Roda

That's a really good point, and I wish I'd noticed it before sending them an email. I can't believe they would leave the entire motor unsupported, but there's nothing visible in the kit pictures that supports the front.

Roda

So, a guy on CR who's got one of these kits in hand confirmed that there are no forward engine mounts.

Here's a pic:



So, your drivetrain is bolted to the car at the adapter plate and diff, since this kit is designed to retain the PPF with the stock trans and diff. All the engine weight is hanging off the front of the adapter plate. I don't see that holding up well with track abuse...

Combined with the other issues, I think that about does it for this swap.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

lol @ 1/2" movement of steering rack not being "significant"

lol @ oil pan sitting below factory subframe

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

Its really just changing the stress direction of the transmission bolts. However, the BP transmissions have more bolts (4) on the lower side to deal with the stress of extension, where is with this setup the top (2) bolts will be in stretch. Depending on the length of the motor and the weight compared to the BP it might not be and issue depending on what grade/quality bolts are used. Its definitely a thinking outside the box way of doing it, but only time will tell how it holds up to stress.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Not just that. I predict a rash of broken PPFs and diff arms in cars with this setup. And maybe broken tail housing bolts.