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Old 09-17-2010, 09:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
The only ones I've seen over 400 on stock internals were all k series engnies or f2x out of the s2k.
S2k motors don't count. Those things come factory with forged pistons and rods and some kinda crazy valve treatment. Add a 3mm headgasket to drop compression and ARP studs and those are built for boost.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:14 PM   #62
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Lol that classic rice vid kills me every time.

"O ****.. Ooo shiiit!!.. O mai Gaahh!!"
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:50 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
You must have been out of the loop for quite some time them.

Stock B series engines breaking 300. Easily making 500+ with rods and pistons.

D16s beiong built with rods and cheap OEM Suzuki Vitara pistons are making 300+ hp. With a cam and intake manifold 500+hp.

Stock H22s pushing 400+ hp

And all the parts are at a fraction of the cost of parts for our cars. Honda prts are as cheap as parts for SBC and SBF V8s now.
I guess, 300ish was I remember for b series stock motors, like I said things change. H22s I remember making good power depending on the year if they where open or closed deck, but they are in a prelude which IMO isn't a "great" chasis. Then if you talking putting other motors in other cars and the price goes up a lot. Aren't people making 300hp on 1.8 engine stock? There is no doubt there more cheap parts for hondas just a bigger base of people, I just don't share the same view of a gap on price performance.
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:33 PM   #64
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:07 PM   #65
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Now I know where they got the terminology 12 turn motor...LOL


Awesome!


The main reason I prefer the BP platform is, you blow up an engine or **** up the CH, a quick visit to the junkyard will get you back to boosted power in no time. The block and CH can be found on Ford Escort GTs, Mercury Tracer, Kia, Mazda Protege, the options are a dime a dozen, no hassle with minimal ATM withdrawal, (thats beer money).

In the contrary, **** up a V-Tec head or throw a rod through the engine block and decide to go to the junkyard. IF you are lucky you may find a "maybe" in good condition part. 9 out of 10 when there is a complete Honda engine in the JY its because you were the first one to see the car or the engine is useless.

For boosted applications for what must of all will be seeing in terms of HP, the BP is good enough.

Besides the Honda market is ridiculously over-priced, it just takes a quick look on CL and many punk kids think the Honda badge itself is enough to justify the price tag.

You can score easily, if you do your homework, a nice well maintained Miata for a fair price.

Last edited by mazpr; 09-18-2010 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:43 PM   #66
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I don't agree with honda stuff being overpriced. Around here civic parts are dirt cheap
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:24 PM   #67
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Just compare prices between a complete engine, cylinder head and block, from a junkyard.

Besides price, I dont know about your area, but here anything that is Eclipse or Honda is gone, but Mazda there are always parts available.

In regards to power per liter, once you go boosted its a total different ball game. The BP block can take such a beating compared to honda engines. Cam profile, overlap change with turbo applications.

In fact, all turbo hondas that are running all ***** out do not have the fabulous v-tec.

A buddy of mine used to have a 240Dl volvo turbocharged, and that shyt was ridiclously fast for such a heavy chassis.

For boosted applications, the BP block hands down, for all motor then Hondas takes the pick.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:00 PM   #68
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Thats true for some honda engines, but only the ones that were either not sold here or only sold in low numbers.
D series engines are all over the place and you can get a complete running long block in good condition for 100 bucks.
Most honda people dont want them because theyre ******* idiots and think that DOHC > SOHC.
LSs and B20s are cheap too, since they sold a ton of LS integras and a ton of CRVs.
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:49 AM   #69
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I would do a B20 or a Big turbo single cammer if i were to do a honda.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:39 AM   #70
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I swapped a B16A into my CRX, but had I known then what I know now, I would have built the D16A6 and turbo'd it. For around the same money as the swap, I could have been making lots more unusable power.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:07 AM   #71
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Yah dude 350 bucks for a set of Eagle H beams, 150 bucks for Suzuki Vitara pistons, and 100 bucks for ARP head studs.

Thats a built bottom end proven to over 600hp and it only cost 600 bucks.

Lots of people have made 350+hp on that bottom end and a stock head/IM as well. Add a cam and valve springs and you can get over 500.

Its hilarious how little respect the D series gets, when its honestly a very good engine to boost. The VTEC B series have such big cams and ports from the factory that they lag all day.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:56 AM   #72
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Yep. The Vitara wasn't out when I had mine but I'm not flaming. Even with a set of $400 pistons it would have been a good way to go. I sold my Si engine to a local Jax guy for $150.

BTW if you saw a red '90 CRX Si with CF hood and extended studs running around Jax and looking otherwise stock, that was me.
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:15 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
Unless OP is talking about K series motors as well, which is a whole nother level.
I disagree... 400hp is easy on an B series Honda. K series is simple to do 400 But I think you know that part.
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Yah dude 350 bucks for a set of Eagle H beams, 150 bucks for Suzuki Vitara pistons, and 100 bucks for ARP head studs.

Thats a built bottom end proven to over 600hp and it only cost 600 bucks.

Lots of people have made 350+hp on that bottom end and a stock head/IM as well. Add a cam and valve springs and you can get over 500.

Its hilarious how little respect the D series gets, when its honestly a very good engine to boost. The VTEC B series have such big cams and ports from the factory that they lag all day.
Are these quoted power levels good for only the street, or for track duty?
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:37 PM   #75
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K-series better have some serious cash.

d-series.org is one good website where there is from the ultimate tard 400 hp stock internals to serious from the ground up builds.

I opened a account a while back and just love the completely fail threads, bent rods, melted pistons threads.

Pushing more than 300 hp on stock internals is a ticking time bomb.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:24 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Are these quoted power levels good for only the street, or for track duty?
Street/Drag. I dont think the cast pistons would stand up to road racing at 500 hp. But there are some road racers running vitara built bottom ends. Ill have to look up what kind of power theyre making safely.

Road racing would blow up so many of these peoples cars. A lot of them have little tiny radiators with slim fans.
Ive gotten into a few discussions about just that. Many people dont realize just how much abuse the engine sees when youre making full boost off and on for half an hour.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
You must have been out of the loop for quite some time them.

Stock B series engines breaking 300. Easily making 500+ with rods and pistons.

D16s beiong built with rods and cheap OEM Suzuki Vitara pistons are making 300+ hp. With a cam and intake manifold 500+hp.

Stock H22s pushing 400+ hp

And all the parts are at a fraction of the cost of parts for our cars. Honda prts are as cheap as parts for SBC and SBF V8s now.
i have seen this also. but i have also seen a 297hp gsr blow up. Our engines aren't that bad. we just don't push them like honda drivers do. With good tuning we could probably make about 280rwhp out of our stock 1.8 and run it for a while with no problems. The problem is longevity. That gsr i just mentioned lasted almost 2 years at that power. Once more people get in to building our vvt heads we will see some power increases. The best part is when we snap our timing belts we can slip another one on in about 3 hrs, while that Honda needs a rebuild.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazpr View Post
K-series better have some serious cash.

Pushing more than 300 hp on stock internals is a ticking time bomb.
Nope... 300hp on a stock B series is a joke. 400hp is easy.
I tune these things all the time. All you need is a set of 550cc Injectors and either a chipped ECU or Hondata s300. (I prefer the Hondata)

Great little street cars.. I'm in the process of gather everything to Turbo my Acura TSX. Looking for about 400hp from the K24 using quite a small turbo.
Then again it is a K series.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:56 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Nope... 300hp on a stock B series is a joke. 400hp is easy.
I tune these things all the time. All you need is a set of 550cc Injectors and either a chipped ECU or Hondata s300. (I prefer the Hondata)

Great little street cars.. I'm in the process of gather everything to Turbo my Acura TSX. Looking for about 400hp from the K24 using quite a small turbo.
Then again it is a K series.
s300 is so nice and easy to use, but the price of s chipped ECU is one of the main reasons I love hondas so much. You basically have a standalone ECU from the factory, all it requires is soldering in a ZIF socket and a couple resistors.
Plus you can actually make a higher resolution tune with CROME/neptune/ectune than you can with hondata (although its totally unnecessary)
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:24 PM   #80
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I disagree... 400hp is easy on an B series Honda. K series is simple to do 400 But I think you know that part.
Interesting.

I have a 94 ls Integra which is my dd. It has about 160k on it now and still runs perfect. In the future when/if the motor goes I was planning on putting in a stock b20z just to have a reliable torquey dd. I did not realize how strong some of you guys are saying a stock b18 bottom end is, I might have to make a change in plans now.

Do you think a boosted ls is dd material? I live down a dirt road, which sucks for manifolds and hardware. Perhaps a cast manifold and safety wire would work in this instance? Bah, now I've got to do more research.
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