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Old 02-27-2009, 10:05 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
On your website, there are several pictures depicting a similar pipe, however it has mounting tabs to secure it to the intake manifold and is of a slightly smaller diameter along most of its length, with welded adapters on the end to mate with the radiator hose. I've attached pictures:

I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bell Engineering Website
The final version does not have mounting tabs for the intake manifold.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:54 AM   #162
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Bugger. I fail at reading comprehension.

Oh well, I still want it. The spacer, the pipe, and the hoses I need to make then bends.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 02-27-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:54 AM   #163
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Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram? Or just edit Phil's original one?

A list of the parts you've been talking about would be nice.

I think this way we can get some clear ideas.

BTW, nice work.

Thanks

Last edited by Rafa; 02-27-2009 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:00 AM   #164
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:03 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram?
I've posted 2 simple diagrams in this thread, a parts list, and a picture showing all the parts I plan to use labeled on the head (minus hoses which i have yet to source).

Maybe you just missed posts 31, 60 and 133.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:08 AM   #166
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Wow that went fast !
It is mine now.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:26 AM   #167
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Here's what I'd like to see changed. It would add a bit of cost, and believe me I'm as cheap as saml01, but I'd like to see one metal pipe that goes from the rear of the engine to the front of the engine. There would be one rubber hose segment where it connects at the rear and another at the front where it connects to the radiator. And no more. Seeing how many connections we can add to the system does not arouse me. Preferably the metal pipe would have a couple mounting tabs as well to mount it to the engine. I think this is important to. If the end piece ends up being 1 or 2 pipes with 3 or 4 connections, I won't buy it. I'll get the spacer and make my own one piece pipe that's secured to the engine.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:41 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well?
No, but we can. I just marked up a spacer and gave it to Joe to alter. I will post photos when done.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:46 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram? Or just edit Phil's original one?
It's a valid question. We've been banging around a lot.

Here is the stock cooling system:



I have removed all the little accessory plumbing to make things simpler and depict only the primary coolant path. Water comes out of the pump and goes into the front of the engine. When the thermostat is open, much of this water goes up around #1, and then right out the front of the head, through the thermostat, and into the radiator. Because of this, relatively little water flows around the back of the engine, and the rear of the engine runs hotter as a result. Additionally, a lot of the water coming from the pump is being wasted by going right back out of the engine again, thus lowering the overall cooling capacity of the system.


Here's the reroute as proposed:


We put a spacer on the back, put the thermostat into it, and put a water neck outlet on that. In the front, we block the outlet where the thermostat was.

In this configuration, all of the water coming out of the pump goes all the way through the engine. When the thermostat is closed, all this water goes through the heater core and back into the mixing manifold (This is how the stock system works.) When the thermostat opens, some of this water gets diverted away to the radiator. But the key point is that all of the water, including that sent off to the radiator, passed all the way through the engine first.


So, the parts list:

1: A spacer, with a grooved lip for the thermostat, drilled to accept a barbed fitting for the heater core, the CLT sensor, and optionally one or two other sensors / outlets.

2: The water neck. This is from a Kia Sephia, a 1.6L Miata, a Protege, etc.

3: A pipe of some kind to carry water from the outlet at the back to the upper radiator inlet, and hoses to connect it.

4: Something to block off the front thermostat outlet- a freeze plug or a flat plate.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:49 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I'd like to see one metal pipe that goes from the rear of the engine to the front of the engine. There would be one rubber hose segment where it connects at the rear and another at the front where it connects to the radiator. And no more.
Hmmm.

This would probably not be possible in a one-size-fits-all application. For example, my engine is pretty cluttered in the area around the radiator inlet. I've got a BOV, a circular saw blade, and a lot of wiring up there, not to mention my homebrew inlet manifold pipe. I'm thinking that a multi-section rubber hose solution, though it adds connection points, will give me the flexibility I need to make this connection without having to re-arrange all my existing parts.
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Old 02-27-2009, 11:50 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner View Post
(regarding the welded tabs)
No, but we can.
Now that I think about it, I'm guessing there was a good reason you got rid of the welded tabs- they're probably potential failure points due to vibration. I can live with a free-floating pipe.

Quote:
I just marked up a spacer and gave it to Joe to alter. I will post photos when done.
(music from Jeopardy playing)
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:10 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
It's a valid question. We've been banging around a lot.

Here is the stock cooling system:



I have removed all the little accessory plumbing to make things simpler and depict only the primary coolant path. Water comes out of the pump and goes into the front of the engine. When the thermostat is open, much of this water goes up around #1, and then right out the front of the head, through the thermostat, and into the radiator. Because of this, relatively little water flows around the back of the engine, and the rear of the engine runs hotter as a result. Additionally, a lot of the water coming from the pump is being wasted by going right back out of the engine again, thus lowering the overall cooling capacity of the system.


Here's the reroute as proposed:


We put a spacer on the back, put the thermostat into it, and put a water neck outlet on that. In the front, we block the outlet where the thermostat was.

In this configuration, all of the water coming out of the pump goes all the way through the engine. When the thermostat is closed, all this water goes through the heater core and back into the mixing manifold (This is how the stock system works.) When the thermostat opens, some of this water gets diverted away to the radiator. But the key point is that all of the water, including that sent off to the radiator, passed all the way through the engine first.


So, the parts list:

1: A spacer, with a grooved lip for the thermostat, drilled to accept a barbed fitting for the heater core, the CLT sensor, and optionally one or two other sensors / outlets.

2: The water neck. This is from a Kia Sephia, a 1.6L Miata, a Protege, etc.

3: A pipe of some kind to carry water from the outlet at the back to the upper radiator inlet, and hoses to connect it.

4: Something to block off the front thermostat outlet- a freeze plug or a flat plate.
Many, many thanks Joe.

Scott; not all members have the same mechanical skills.

I reiterate my original remark: Congratulations on a great thread!

Not too long ago; someone started a thread asking why guys susbscribe: I subscribe to this forum for this type of threads.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:17 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Now that I think about it, I'm guessing there was a good reason you got rid of the welded tabs- they're probably potential failure points due to vibration. I can live with a free-floating pipe.


(music from Jeopardy playing)

That's what I did. Im much more comfortable with it free floating Vs all the flex being put on the front hose..
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #174
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OEM's secure coolant pipes to the engine and use a rubber hose of sufficient length to take care of engine vibrations and movement. I'm more interested in the spacer for cheap than the pipe anyways. Odds are they won't make one I like.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #175
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Spent 10 minutes and modded my housing while my lunch was heating up...





First i cut about 1/4" off the bung.







Then I screwed in a radiator plug and proceeded to cut off the head (I couldn't find the type of plug I wanted).





Now it sticks out just slightly less than before (without a plug). If I could find the right plug it would be better, but I'm certain this will be fine, beats buying a new housing.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:16 PM   #176
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nice pair of robo grip pliers mang!
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:17 PM   #177
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Here is the first version:
~A 12 mm threaded bung with spacer for temps sensors.
~Two 3/8 NPT bung. One for heater core return, one for upper radiator hose connection.

Does this work?
Stephanie
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:24 PM   #178
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nice pair of robo grip pliers mang!
they're pretty intense.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:24 PM   #179
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Don't forget the machined lip for the thermostat to sit in it. The thermostat will be between the spacer and the kia water neck not that spacer and the head as in your old racer reroute design.
I don't think the 3/8 NPT hole for connection to the upper radiator hose is necessary. A 1/8 NPT port for sending units like my vgauges sending unit would be better utilized. A similar "spacer bung" that you used before would work. The upper radiator hose will be connected via the kia waterneck.
As shown here:
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:25 PM   #180
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Needs to be machined for a t-stat.

Edit- Cj beat me to it.
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