miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something)
11-04-2016, 12:35 PM
#3062
Emilio, are you running any brake cooling ducts yet? I know the Cup cars have some, but I haven't seen any pictures. The only feedback I have seen is that they are rough looking with exposed screws etc on the front inlets.
It is also weird that I haven't seen anyone post that they have bought a 2017 on m.net yet. Where are they?
BW also announced a new smaller EFR today. It is 35mm shorter and has 35% less inertia than a 6258. They claim it flows 95% of a 6258, as well. It is the 5951 and it sounds like the perfect ND turbo!
It is also weird that I haven't seen anyone post that they have bought a 2017 on m.net yet. Where are they?
BW also announced a new smaller EFR today. It is 35mm shorter and has 35% less inertia than a 6258. They claim it flows 95% of a 6258, as well. It is the 5951 and it sounds like the perfect ND turbo!
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11-04-2016, 12:46 PM
#3063
No brake ducts. So far it's been happy with just the 11.75 Radial mount DP4 and G-Loc R-18/R10. We don't road race the ND though so its possible we would encounter thermal issues or rapid pad wear if we did. For now though, the brakes are amazing. Consistently outbraked everything at MRLS. Stops way harder than our NA's by virtue of the ND's significantly larger contact patch.
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11-04-2016, 12:58 PM
#3065
Another little advantage the ND has over the NA/NB is active brake bias with input from the native brake line pressure, yaw and pitch sensors. The 86 twins also do this very well. You can feel the brake bias helping you rotate the car under braking. All transparent and easily adapted to.
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11-04-2016, 01:17 PM
#3066
I wasn't referring to braking feel, just the raw amount of G that an NA can generate when braking. You can see it in G-graphs from typical sessions, where a G-circle ends up being much more of a G-ellipse. I've seen similar graphs from others (used to compare a lot with Keith Verges when he was still with us). I easily get to 1.2ish in the turns, but a bit over 0.9 is all it will do before locking up. Doesn't help that I'm running 3.5 degrees of camber of course.
As far as feel/modulation/linearity, agree, really nice.
As far as feel/modulation/linearity, agree, really nice.
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11-04-2016, 01:23 PM
#3067
That's mostly just tire size. Weight distribution, polar moment, pitch moment, anti-dive and all that are good in the NA/NB. Mount a set of FA fronts or 245/580R15 R75's on 15x10's and your opinion of the brakes will change. Becomes impossible to downshift fast enough, braking zones that begin after the turn in marker, oil pressure drops etc.
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11-04-2016, 06:15 PM
#3068
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I've heard that they're sitting at the docks waiting to be delivered to dealers and that they're waiting for the existing stock of 2016s to get sold down. Naturally, m.net is in a tizzy about how fast they are/aren't selling and the many potential reasons for such, mostly focusing on the fact that the masses just don't understand the pure, unmitigated, unquestionable, genius of Mazda.
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11-04-2016, 06:34 PM
#3069
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As fantastic as the ND is, Mazda just really largely missed the mark for this market if they wanted to sell a whole bunch of them IMO. However, they're moving fairly consistently. I don't know if that really is the reason for the '17's delay, but the only one we've ordered so far has been sitting at the port since August. Usually once portwork is completed they arrive at the dealership within a couple days. This one's port work was completed on August 22.
I expect Mazda IS waiting for dealer stock to go down before releasing the '17s, and good on them -- it's really better for the brand if supply doesn't far exceed demand.
The Ceramic club I ordered for myself still hasn't sold. Have seen it every single day since July
I expect Mazda IS waiting for dealer stock to go down before releasing the '17s, and good on them -- it's really better for the brand if supply doesn't far exceed demand.
The Ceramic club I ordered for myself still hasn't sold. Have seen it every single day since July
Last edited by turbofan; 11-04-2016 at 06:48 PM.
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11-04-2016, 08:17 PM
#3070
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How/why do you think they missed the mark? The cars are relatively true to the miata heritage right? The redesign for the ND looks great and more in line with American tastes for every dimension except horsepower numbers...
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11-04-2016, 09:17 PM
#3073
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The Miata doesn't really compete against anything currently on the market except the FRS/BRZ/whatever-the-****-they-call it now. Pretty much everyone else has given up selling sports cars for under $50K.
--Ian
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11-04-2016, 11:58 PM
#3074
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I think miata aficionados tend to be too literal when discussing what "competes with" a miata. Sure it's pretty much the only relatively inexpensive roadster, and one of a small group of light RWD cars, but if the goal is a "fun", "cool", or "fast" car then there are lots of options. Which takes me to my other thought. Miata has stayed true to it's roots, but hasn't adapted to the changing competition landscape. Even as recently as the NC launch in 2006, and certainly for the NA and NB generations, a consumer had the choice of a fast/powerful car or a great handling car, but not both (at a reasonable price). Now, with the on-going horsepower wars and the fact that Camaro and Mustang are no longer (as) fat wallowing pigs, consumers can have both at a similar price point. I'm personally in that position. I love the looks and handling dynamics of the ND, and have had good luck with my NA but it's tough to justify at ~$28k when for a few thousand more you can get 400 hp. Add to that the fact that, for me at least, I would immediately have to change the suspension to reduce body roll and look into various power adders which would void the warranty and complicate emissions and the ND becomes a compelling USED car, but tough to justify new. That being said, I'll continue to stop by the dealer to drool occasionally and if they cut me a great deal on one of these leftover 2016s then I might pick one up after all.
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11-05-2016, 02:32 AM
#3076
I think miata aficionados tend to be too literal when discussing what "competes with" a miata. Sure it's pretty much the only relatively inexpensive roadster, and one of a small group of light RWD cars, but if the goal is a "fun", "cool", or "fast" car then there are lots of options. Which takes me to my other thought. Miata has stayed true to it's roots, but hasn't adapted to the changing competition landscape. Even as recently as the NC launch in 2006, and certainly for the NA and NB generations, a consumer had the choice of a fast/powerful car or a great handling car, but not both (at a reasonable price). Now, with the on-going horsepower wars and the fact that Camaro and Mustang are no longer (as) fat wallowing pigs, consumers can have both at a similar price point. I'm personally in that position. I love the looks and handling dynamics of the ND, and have had good luck with my NA but it's tough to justify at ~$28k when for a few thousand more you can get 400 hp. Add to that the fact that, for me at least, I would immediately have to change the suspension to reduce body roll and look into various power adders which would void the warranty and complicate emissions and the ND becomes a compelling USED car, but tough to justify new. That being said, I'll continue to stop by the dealer to drool occasionally and if they cut me a great deal on one of these leftover 2016s then I might pick one up after all.
I don't think they missed the mark. I think there are more than 1 mark.
What they did with the ND, IMHO, is brilliant and I am still just as impressed with it as I was when it was announced. But I too will likely not own one. Until they're closer to 10ish grand, lol.
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11-05-2016, 01:08 PM
#3077
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Miata has stayed true to it's roots, but hasn't adapted to the changing competition landscape. Even as recently as the NC launch in 2006, and certainly for the NA and NB generations, a consumer had the choice of a fast/powerful car or a great handling car, but not both (at a reasonable price). Now, with the on-going horsepower wars and the fact that Camaro and Mustang are no longer (as) fat wallowing pigs, consumers can have both at a similar price point. I'm personally in that position. I love the looks and handling dynamics of the ND, and have had good luck with my NA but it's tough to justify at ~$28k when for a few thousand more you can get 400 hp. Add to that the fact that, for me at least, I would immediately have to change the suspension to reduce body roll and look into various power adders which would void the warranty and complicate emissions and the ND becomes a compelling USED car, but tough to justify new.
Agree with a lot of this. At least IMO.
I don't think they missed the mark. I think there are more than 1 mark.
What they did with the ND, IMHO, is brilliant and I am still just as impressed with it as I was when it was announced. But I too will likely not own one. Until they're closer to 10ish grand, lol.
I don't think they missed the mark. I think there are more than 1 mark.
What they did with the ND, IMHO, is brilliant and I am still just as impressed with it as I was when it was announced. But I too will likely not own one. Until they're closer to 10ish grand, lol.
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11-05-2016, 05:20 PM
#3079
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Personally, I don't see any new cars on the market that are a good Miata-alternative. The S2000 was a runner, so was the MR2. But they're dead. The Mustang and the Camaro are conceptually similar, but project much more of a "bro" vibe- I have a hard time visualizing someone shopping for a new Mustang saying to themself "I should probably check out that Miata" or vise-versa.
Now in the used market, there are certain contenders, but I'll admit that I don't really understand the mindset of the new-car buyer in the first place. If you're willing to accept a used car instead of a new one, but still have 2016 ND money to burn, I'd think that the Boxster, the Corvette, the Z4, and the CLK would would be strong contenders.
The Q40/Q60? Not really in the same league as far as being an aspirational purchase. More like the car that your wife brow-beats you into buying with all sorts of logical arguments like "we have two children and a dog," despite the fact that you really wanted an ND (or a Boxster, or a Corvette.)
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11-05-2016, 06:31 PM
#3080
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Haha I looked at a v8 mustang before I bought my nb1. I mostly picked the Miata because I'm new to being a car guy and I felt that the car/community was more accessible. I also sold an SV650 to fund the miata and I felt like they had similar strengths and weaknesses re how nimble they are while not having the straight line oomph.
Now that I'm here, the second part might be getting fixed!
Now that I'm here, the second part might be getting fixed!
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