turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Oh sure, in the realm of turbo kits the mechanical empathy thing applies. I am more referring to the swath of failures with the original design.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Yah, I'd agree that qualifies as screwing the pooch. That's what happens when you push design limits. The entire ND platform is real accomplishment. The more I crawl around it in the shop the more impressed I become. It is clear they pushed every boundary and left no stone untruned in the quest for weight savings and efficiency improvements. That they turned out a clean sheet of paper car like the ND and can sell it for $26k at a profit is amazeballs.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

I was basically going to say this. Gone are the days when manufactures can just over build components. With weight being a critical issue in so many car designs these days, components are going to be "just strong enough" to survive at stock power levels. The good thing is that more and more manufactures are seeing good sales out of performance boosted models. Spend a little money to beef up a few components on a limited run model and share that cost with the consumer who is willing to pay extra for it.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

^Indeed.

However, Mazda seems uninterested in this at the moment, which is an utter tragedy.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Ninja edit, @emilio700?

I mean they seem uninterested in offering higher-performance variants of their vehicles.

rleete

iTrader: (21)

Really? Have you been hiding under a rock?

New Dodge Demon, Ford has extended production of the GT350 and GT500 model Mustangs, etc. Not to mention the exclusive versions of supercars for insane prices.

When in the past could you get a car with HP numbers in the high triple digits? Cars are faster, handle better and are still more comfortable than the luxo-boats of yore.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

@rleete Who are you talking to?

If me, I was talking about Mazda

If Midtenn, he specified that manufacturers are beginning to capitalize on higher-profit-margin performance versions (like the ones you listed) of their regular cars.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

All the new special editions typically only share X% of their lower trim level models. The GT350 uses a unique flat plane crank, heads, intake, body work, transmission, etc when compared to the standard GT. The Demon motor and driveline are unique to it. Both of these are going to cost a big premium over the standard trim levels. Halo super cars like the Ford GT barely make any profit. They are generally produced to up the brands visability and act as test beds for new concepts. Why do you think the GT got a Ecoboost V6 instead of the 5.2L flatplane Voodoo V8? Ford wants to show their V6 technology is a performer and likely the future of their performance branding. They did the same thing with the Ecoboost Mustangs. By placing them higher than the V6 in trim level, it make the loss of the V6 easier to digest for most people because it was already the "the better option".

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

My guess is Mazda still does not have the budget to do a super low volume special edition ND for what is already a very low volume car. I can relate in a way. I have ideas for cool projects that would cost a bunch and might find a few buyers. Problem is there would be so few buyers, R&D costs so high that the retail price would be astronomical. Companies flush with cash and big budgets for special projects can endeavor these vanity, brand building projects. Small companies on tighter budgets can not.

I'd love me an ND like the GTU-S FC RX7. That car was the real deal.

Lexzar

iTrader: (2)

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

All the special bits from the turbo, without the turbo.

hornetball

iTrader: (4)

So, the penchant for the Heavy Duty normally-aspirated track car that sticks like glue and goes forever started early in life?

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Serious question... How would folks see something like this playing out, if at all.

-Mazda comes out with ND transmission that isn't glass.
-They update the engine to have a pre-drilled oil port and space for coolant lines.
-They either come up with a turbo kit or work with an existing manufacturer of said kits to come up with a kit. Maybe both a supercharger and turbocharger kit.
-Kit is offered as a dealer option. That must be ordered when the car is ordered. Run of the mill ND's are available to whomever wants to buy one.
-Kit is installed at the dealer or at approved performance shops (likely dealer) for a fixed price for kit+service.
-ECU has a flash count on it. If the stock tune is modified, the warranty on the car is voided. Maybe the car will have a lower
-Mazda will release updated tunes that can be flashed at a dealer.

This would allow Mazda to skip the costs of having a low volume mazdaspeed version of the car that would cost it a ton of money, but folks that want the added bump in performance would be able to do this without all the costs going to mazda. They're insulated if the demand isn't there. The kits can be installed by current ND owners for an additional cost of the kit+service+transmission. They can skip the trans option but lose out on the warranty of the drivetrain. Whatever is left of the warranty is honored by mazda for everything else but the previous.

Does this make sense economically for a lower volume car and a manufacturer like mazda? I mean, they wouldn't even have to make special transmissions and axles etc like they did for the MSM. They could possibly just put it on everything to help spread out the costs.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Your enthusiasm is admirable but... No. Never. Ever.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

You don't just "update" an engine to add a port. Thats changing drawings, toolings, processes, etc. Most of the other things on your list don't just "happen"

So a whole bunch of engineering time, for not much more money?

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

The ND will be due for an update someday. Screw the ports. Those can be added easily enough aftermarket.

My likelihood of buying a new car that's less than 5-10 years for the next 5-10 years is basically nil.

I just see this kind of thing being the only way that Mazda can provide a performance bonus on the ND without going entirely back to the drawing board. Hell, the MSM only had like 30% more power at the crank than the regular NB2... The ND would need to get to 200-220 for a similar gain. That would put it at the same power to weight as the base 300 hp mustang and I'm guessing it would cost in the realm of 5-6k more.

Regardless, I'm curious about what the cheapest way of doing this would be.

Hell, they could freaking supercharge them to get to 200-220 hp.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

I would be (pleasantly) surprised if Mazda invests any money in a high performance Miata.

Mazda management isn't what it was ten years ago. In some ways that's a good thing -- their cars are now far higher quality, better handling, and more competitive in terms of safety and economy than before. But they genuinely appear to have no interest in power beyond what's necessary. They don't have the budget they once did.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Right, but doing this as a sort of 'contracting' thing they'd have to invest less money into the overall process, no? I.e. if there's a low-med power supercharger option to bring it up by like 30-40 percent (50-60hp). They'd just have to okay the specs etc. The transmission is blowing up in the 250+ range right? Not the 200-220 range? The car weighs about as much as an NB1 does. That's not a bad end result, especially with more torque on tap.

I'm just thinking of the way they could do this with the least possible cost/overhead.

Wasn't there an 'official' jackson supercharged NA or am I making that up?

It's not as much a question of 'this is what mazda should do'. I'm more wondering what the cheapest way for them to make something like this happen would be. I legitimately have no idea and folks here have way more experience with that kind of supply chain/manufacturing stuff than I do!

Or, you know...

They could just contract out to K-miata who can make a modern honda engine compatible with the ND and put in a reliable trans.

Realistically, I think Emilio is right. Manufactures are moving away from stuff that's overbuilt in the least. They build stuff that can withstand stock power and everything that comes along with it because it's cheaper and that's what the car was designed to do. It's unfortunate for enthusiasts, but at the end of the day it does make more economical sense.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

In order for any of that to happen, they'd have to give a ****.

What COULD they do? A million things. Would make the most sense to just apply what they learned on the CX-9 and do it on the Miata rather than contract with some other company.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

I had to look that up. Pretty cool.

Do you think the miata would be a higher volume car if it had something like that on tap or as an option? Not that the miata will ever be a high volume car. I mean, at times I wonder if they just keep the project alive because they've been doing it for so long and its so acclaimed that it plasters their name everywhere.