Adaptronic Stand Alones at a great price - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-22-2009, 09:52 PM   #1
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Default Adaptronic Stand Alones at a great price

NA $899 (USD) including plug and play harness and map sensor of choice (1 bar or 3 bar) shipping included in the U.S.A.


NB & NBB $950 (USD) including plug and play harness and map sensor of choice (1 bar or 3 bar) shipping included in the U.S.A.

Adaptronic without a plug and play harness $680 (USD) .5m free loom.

At 5 orders all prices drop $40 (USD)

At 10 orders all prices drop $30 (USD)

This stand alone will control the variable camshaft timing mechanism on the 01 and up. We had specific code written for it.

At 5 orders the price drops 40 more dollars, at 10 orders the price drops another 30 dollars. I know you guys don't want to spend alot, but I think this is a pretty incredible deal. I personally paid more for my standalone when I first bought it from adaptronic as a dealer. I just got a new price sheet so I can offer you guys a much better price. When this group buy expires prices will go back upto the new recommended retail. So get them in this group buy while they are cheap.

Last edited by TravisR; 01-25-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:47 AM   #2
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Is anybody running one on a boosted NB? Experiences?
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:53 AM   #3
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I can answer that question for you. These units are all the rave in Europe and Australia, but your not going to find them here in the U.S.A. I believe adaptronic has sold 5 here. Six if you include me. I have one person who is going to purchase and test these within the next few weeks. It has most of the features of a hydra at 45% of the cost.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:47 AM   #4
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This is probably a dumb question, but why not work out a deal like this with something a little more popular like a Link?
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:09 PM   #5
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The link is not nearly as powerful as this E.C.U. I know its unpopular as of yet, but there just hasn't been but one dealer here ever. I chose this E.C.U. because I really wanted something capable of tuning an ITB turbo setup because of my intake manifold I'm working on. This requires a MAP * TPS function, which is pretty rare. This ECU is the best performance per dollar you can get. VVT control, sequential injection, autotuning for fuel and ignition, WB and NB can run simulatanous, staged injection capability.

You also have complete control over the rest of the functions in the car. This runs a/c, smog equipment, alternators, anything that recieves an electronic signal can be run using this E.C.U. through the use of simple tables.

It also has closed loop fuel, closed loop idle control, closed loop ignition, closed loop wastegate control, closed loop VVT control. It has a full interface into a labtop and uses tables that act more like excel sheets then data inputs. So you can interpolate between cells by rows, columns, or even corners.

I can go on and on about this thing. I love the unit I have. Once I got it dialed in I lost zero drivability and features.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #6
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Would you care to do a feature to feature breakdown comparing this to a Hydra.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #7
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From what I've known using this system it does everything that is on this page:

Hydra EMS :Nemesis 2:

I know the adaptronic has one feature the nemesis doesnt and that is closed loop VVT control.

I think the only major difference is that the tuning maps are 16X32 on the adaptronic, and it can't run 8 injectors in sequential. It can run staged injection though using a logic gate. The adaptronic has every feature that the Nemisis does according to that webpage besides the ones I mentioned above. The RPM units are scalable, and top and bottom manifold absolute pressure are also scalable. So if you are runn 1 bar of boost, you can set the map to read a maximum of 1.2 bar and then E.C.U. sets up your tuning map so that it has 16 eqaul parts. To me its plenty of resolution, too much really, when you tune with a map that is split 16X32 at 250 rpm steps it is really easy to jump from cell to cell, so it can actually be a little troublesome to tune certain cells.

Think of it this way....

24 PSI absolute pressure is set at your max. Every 1.5 psi represents a new cell. So every .75 psi change in pressure the E.C.U. changes load cells. It also interpolates between cells. On my map we are talkin .1 millisecond difference in pulsewidth between most cells. You pretty much don't even need it to interpolate at this resolution,your not going to be able to notice changes smaller like .05 millisecond very easily, and you certainly arn't going to have any massive nonlinear changes with load cells packed that tight.

I can see if I can do a direct comparison at a later time, but I can't do it today. I've got alot on my plate and that would take a very long time.


Other things I found the hydra has on a second look, but the Adaptronic doesn't...
Individual cylinder trimming, and injector phasing
Sequential ignition, but that really doesn't matter.
No onboard datalogging. Datalogging is only available with a computer connected.

Last edited by TravisR; 01-23-2009 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:28 PM   #8
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Do you know of a place near Los Angeles that knows how to use this? The price and features are perfect, but I don't trust myself to tune it.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:05 PM   #9
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Hydra doesn't datalog without a computer attached either. I have one. I really wish it would autotune without me having my computer sitting in the passenger seat all the time :(
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:08 PM   #10
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I couldn't imagine any respectable tuner not being able to use it. Its very simple, and straight forward software. If you have a shop in mind you could show them the software or have them get ahold of me to see if they would be comfortable with it.

Boundary Engineering

They can download the software there. Alot of the settings can be preloaded though(like which outputs are which.) Every kit comes with proper documentation on that as well.

Thats interesting, this E.C.U. autotunes without the computer connected. It also has variable autotune as well. Whenever you first start out on the car you expect your maps to be pretty far off. So it does rough autotuning where it takes large steps to get to get a rough map. Once you get your tune pretty close you can change the autotune feature to where it will only change the values very finely. This feature isn't like a dummy switch either you can modify EXACTLY how finely or roughly it hunts for the tune. I don't know that feature comes standard with many other E.C.U.'s. After I got my rough tune down, and my idle map taken care of, I put it on a finer optimization and just drove it. My map is incredibly accurate after its finely optimized it for 3 months.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:33 PM   #11
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How the hell does closed loop ignition work?
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:14 PM   #12
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I am willing to purchase one if we can work on the price a little more. pm me when you get a chance, If stein is going to get this I will too, might as well pioneer this thing with him
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
How the hell does closed loop ignition work?
Its actually really cool, what it does is it very precisely monitors engine rpm. It continously adjusts the ignition advance to see if a larger advance causes an increase in rpm, which would mean an increase in torque. So it will actually change ignition values on the fly for you.

It also gives you raw values in your datalog if your logging while doing this called the advance metric. If the advance metric is positive that means you can advance the timing and still gain more power, if your advance metric is negative you must decrease the timing to gain more power. So if you have a really large advance metric you should bump the timing significantly and retest that load cell.

There is a slight downside to this, because its always varying your ignition timing the idle can be a little lumpy, and you will occasionally get a hickup. I liked using it to dial in my ignition map. After a few weeks, and several datalogs you have your map dialed in, and you can run the ignition timing in a tight closed loop, so the computer is still optimizing your timing, but is only able to adjust it by a degree or two.

It is doing basically what you would do on the dyno to find the best torque curve. You make runs advancing timing until power falls off the least little bit, and then you back off. You also ofcourse have a knock sensing function that pulls timing for you as well, just incase you (or the E.C.U.) do something that causes your spark map to be way out of whack.

Last edited by TravisR; 01-24-2009 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:45 PM   #14
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At present I've got 2 units on order. If we get three more units the price goes to 859 for the NA and 910 for the NB or NBB. Spread the word, lets drive the price down!
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:51 PM   #15
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pulling the plug

LETS DO THIS PEOPLE!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:42 PM   #16
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can you control the boost with it or control methanl injection? anti lag? i have a fwd bp would i have to conert to miata sensors? or can i stick with my egt harness and sensors?
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:49 PM   #17
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Boost yes, methanol injection would depend on how you are injecting it. If its a steady stream activated at a specific rpm, kpa, and or throttle position then yes, if it requires pulsing with the injectors it might take some rethinking of how it works.

The only problem you would have with using a plug and play harness is if you could not plug a Miata computer into your car. The Adaptronic itself is very configurable when it comes to triggers, and inputs. So the sensors might be different, but as long as the harness can connect to the factory plugs you can probably make it work. (barring if they changed around the pins.)

I can also offer the standalone by itself for 680 without a harness just a 1.5 foot wiring loom. This is the cheapest option, but it requires hacking the stock harness, yet guarantees success because you just find the ECU pinout and connect the appropriate wires up.

Last edited by TravisR; 01-25-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:37 PM   #18
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When does the group buy end?
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supra441979 View Post
When does the group buy end?
I'm giving this a couple of weeks, I understand the amount of money involved is alot, so if you can give me a date you can have the money by I can work with you to some degree.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:42 PM   #20
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I have a 2000 into which I plan to install a VVT head.
How will the PnP for a 2000 control the VVT?

Also, it appears it can't do a 3D boost target map using TPS vs RPM - it only looks like boost target is RPM based.

Re: VVT is also only RPM based - can it do VVT target as a function of both MAP and RPM?

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 01-25-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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