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Old 01-31-2009, 10:06 AM   #81
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Travis, what's the max datalogging for say, 6 variables, into a laptop?
Does it use a USB or serial port?
If you are talking about resolution it is a datalog point every .373 seconds on average for a 10 minute datalog. It does move around some though. The datalogs automatically spill 24 variables. The sample file has the standard datalog.
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:52 PM   #82
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Can it sample faster for say, a 1 minute log?
Can it sample faster using an internal logger?
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:54 PM   #83
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I've asked the same thing as I don't know. There isn't an internal logger, and I think the speed is limited by the internal speed of the unit itself (200hz) and the serial connection. Which ofcourse the serial connection is the real weak point.

I know that the changes the adpatronic makes to the fuel map in autotune have nothing to do with logger speed. Those changes are made much faster.

More to come on the whole issue.

Last edited by TravisR; 01-31-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:04 AM   #84
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The datalogging speed is dependant on how much "traffic" there is on the serial connection, so if the ECU is updating the maps then then the datalogging slows down - this happens when you are using one of the autotune functions as the new map data is transmitted to the ECU.

I have seen datalogging rates of between 0.1s and 0.5s depending on what else is happening.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:17 AM   #85
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I see.. So it is both transmitting the new map data back, and the conditions on the motor. Thats really interesting, I never thought of it that way. I can see how the serial connection is truly the limiting factor. Next time I tune I'll turn all the autotune features off and see how the readings look.

I wonder if there is a way to limit the data coming out of the line to strictly A.F.R. M.A.P. R.P.M. and maybe knock index? Some of that stuff it outputs just isn't necessary. If you are tuning you already know the load cell, so outputs like ignition advance and etcetera are handy but certainly tradeable for more resolution.
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Old 02-01-2009, 02:38 PM   #86
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Can it also log internal variables such as say, the P, I, and D in the boost control?
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:03 PM   #87
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Those variables are the ones you directly decide, so they wouldn't be logged. That is an interesting part of the Adaptronic that seems weird unless you have experienced it. You also couldn't get any error off of these functions because you don't know the real error. If you knew the error you'd know the function. Thats why this process cannot be internalized you have to "feel out" the correct response.

Basically what these settings do is hone a computer delay differential equation solver. So if you could imagine fitting a curve to x^2, and if the P,I,D settings are not correct, it zigs to the right of the line, then above it, then too far to the right, and then too far above it, and this condition will not converge.

When the settings are changed the way the computer attempts to fit to the ideal solution changes as well. Since the real function that must be fit is not known and can take on any form the designers put in these parameters so that E.C.U. can understand what the form of the function is that it has to fit. This way when the boost comes down the pipe it knows it needs to change the duty cycle at 15 psi when the limit is set at 16psi in order to not exceed the ideal solution.

The first time you have to dial in your idle you'll be comfortable with it. Then its just the same process over again for the VVT and the wastegate controller.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:36 PM   #88
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18Psi you up for this money back guarantee on the E.C.U. , or are you back out again?

I just received another message from Rob. He's had that harness out for the better part of year, and MX5mania in Australia has evidently bought and used a large amount of these harnesses. They buy 10 or so a month and have every since the harness came out. They say they work great, NA, NB, and NBB just not the 96-97.

I think there is absolutely no reason to worry, this is a safe bet. Hundreds of harnesses tested without a problem.

Last edited by TravisR; 02-01-2009 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:25 PM   #89
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VVT is plug and play on the NBB harness. I just got it confirmed from two sources in Australia one of which is Rob, and the other a vendor.

www.boundaryengineering.com/harness.zip
This is a new upload that is clearer to read on what the E.C.U.'s do and what the Adaptronic does.

Last edited by TravisR; 02-01-2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:26 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
Those variables are the ones you directly decide, so they wouldn't be logged. That is an interesting part of the Adaptronic that seems weird unless you have experienced it. You also couldn't get any error off of these functions because you don't know the real error. If you knew the error you'd know the function. Thats why this process cannot be internalized you have to "feel out" the correct response.

Basically what these settings do is hone a computer delay differential equation solver. So if you could imagine fitting a curve to x^2, and if the P,I,D settings are not correct, it zigs to the right of the line, then above it, then too far to the right, and then too far above it, and this condition will not converge.

When the settings are changed the way the computer attempts to fit to the ideal solution changes as well. Since the real function that must be fit is not known and can take on any form the designers put in these parameters so that E.C.U. can understand what the form of the function is that it has to fit. This way when the boost comes down the pipe it knows it needs to change the duty cycle at 15 psi when the limit is set at 16psi in order to not exceed the ideal solution.

The first time you have to dial in your idle you'll be comfortable with it. Then its just the same process over again for the VVT and the wastegate controller.
I didn't understand what you're getting at.

I was asking, can it log say, the 'I' term output (i.e. the output of the integrator i.e. the integral of the error) ?
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:53 AM   #91
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Oh, no, sorry for being confusing Jason. I wasn't sure of what you were asking. You can't really see it, because the value changes every cycle of the Adaptronic, so I don't think it would make much sense.(200hz) You can see the output trim values in the log for the injector pulse width and the advance metric for the ignition though. That tells you how much the net effect of your operation is, but that is as close as your going to get.

What did you want to do with those values? Just wondering.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:03 AM   #92
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It's just that one of the things I really like about the AEM is its prodigious datalogging capability. Using a laptop, you can log any set of variables, including internal calculation variables, such as the 'I' in the PI feedback loops. You can also set the datalog rates of the different variables to any of 5 or 6 different speeds. The highest speed with a laptop is something like 50 Hz, if you set one variable to the maximum rate.

If you use the internal logger the data rate is 200 Hz IIRC.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:00 AM   #93
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I think the Adaptronic is a little less flexible in that way. What you get seems to be what you get when it comes to that feature. I never really had to tune anything by hand, so I guess I never really missed it all that much. I just had my knock sensor set to my engine light, so I knew if I was getting into trouble with engine damage. I drove it around with everything rich, and it pretty well leaned the whole map out to a perfect tune.

Now I have revised the maps, but I didn't use data logs to do it.

I do know that the engine tuning feature updates very quickly! So if you just wanted to do AFR tuning you could use that feature, although it doesn't make a permanent log. Its a reading with a histogram.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:00 AM   #94
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I'll say it again. It would be nice to have this as a standalone for the '96.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:09 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post
18Psi you up for this money back guarantee on the E.C.U. , or are you back out again?

I just received another message from Rob. He's had that harness out for the better part of year, and MX5mania in Australia has evidently bought and used a large amount of these harnesses. They buy 10 or so a month and have every since the harness came out. They say they work great, NA, NB, and NBB just not the 96-97.

I think there is absolutely no reason to worry, this is a safe bet. Hundreds of harnesses tested without a problem.
OK, I'll take one. My car is done and I'm tired of waiting for Begi to finish theirs. If you are giving a written guarantee that it will work in my NB, run PnP with no hacking except to wire up the GM IAT, pick up my AEM UEGO WB signal or my money back, I'm game to try it.

I still have your Paypal invoice from your original quote. I want to use Paypal because I have the funds there. Can I go ahead and send the payment?
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:29 PM   #96
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You have to wire in your MAP sensor. Yea you can use the PayPal. I hate to take a hit on the PayPal fees though. Could you send me an extra $40 to cover them? I'm writing you out a digitally signed PDF with the guarantee should be done as soon as my computer stops acting up. I also have the official base logs for the NB and the NBB from Adaptronic now which has the appropriate outputs already set, and evidently it is a map from some turbo. I'm putting those up in the Adaptronic forum soon.

Six shooter letme look into the 96', I might be able to get them to make a harness for that. The plugs are the same as the 99-00 just the pinouts are different. So if I can make them change their wiring around a little bit it would be plug and play as well.

Last edited by TravisR; 02-02-2009 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:31 PM   #97
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Go Stein! You are my hero!
I want the play by play on the install and the tuning.

P.S. Boost by February.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:36 PM   #98
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Worth noting that if you want to remove the MAF or have you're AIT after the intercooler then there is a little more work to do - no big issue though you can just connect the GM AIT into the MAF harnes in the engine by after removing the MAF.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:39 PM   #99
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I thought the 99's had an AIT sensor onboard? Oh it must be integrated into the MAF like the 94 then.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:02 PM   #100
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I thought the 99's had an AIT sensor onboard? Oh it must be integrated into the MAF like the 94 then.
99 has a push in AIT in the stock airbox, so not useful if placed in the charge pipe after the intercooler. I have everything plumbed for retaining the MAF, but would happily delete it as it caused me to lose my cruise control due to filter placement.

That way, I can drop everything down, get the cruise back in and just run a 90* elbow to the filter. I already checked and everything will fit.
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