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Old 01-28-2009, 09:40 PM   #61
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so what is the final word on these things? we got all hyped up about them only to be completely dissapointed. turns out it was all a misunderstanding? Everything still good to go, just not as full standalone but parallel?
Is rob able to get on here as well?

also I understand we have reached the amount of people ordering to bring the price down?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:46 PM   #62
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I could see the coolant being a part of that.

As for the set of the values known as AFM well that is merely a a one to one onto function which can be mapped exactly into the set known as the MAP values, or the set known as TPS values assuming steady state conditions had been realized. Id est AFM can be mapped in by head upstream of throttling device is subjected to a hydraulic diameter of the throttle body, which can then be most realized by a certain phi the bernoulli's equation to depict velocity. Transitively TPS can be realized by setting boundary conditions of known pressure differential and the hydraulic diameter of the throttling device. This gives delta head, and assuredly flow.

They are synonymous, its just which ones you pick (DUH)
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:47 PM   #63
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I don't think Rob wants to get on, but I'll post his emails...

Hi Travis,

You are absolutely correct, I'm so sorry about this confusion!
One of local distributors, who is an MX5 expert, rang us a few weeks ago to ask some very similar questions about the different Miata models/compatibility, and the conversation got a bit confusing at times, so I must have had some random snippets of the conversation stuck in my head and 'remembered' them incorrectly when you asked me about it.
The 99-00 models ARE compatible with our NB8A plug-in loom (it is actually the 96/97 models that aren't compatible, and I had myself totally confused)! I'm not sure about the 98 model, as we don't have any doco for it.

Regarding the VVT setup, we usually just do it as 'RPM only based' to make it simpler, but if you wish to also base it on load you can. The easiest way would be to select 'Ign map 2', and the values in the second ignition map will then become the target VVT angles in degrees BTDC (and the 2D table of VVT angles will be redundant).

Cheers
Rob


We are good to go, I don't think we've hit enough to bring the price down yet.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:01 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Factory ECU uses AFM, RPM, and coolant temp to decide on what to do with EGR. Cold engine = no EGR, ferinstance.

The problem with not running EGR closed loop (using its pressure sensor to determine flow), is that flow may vary even for a given MAP and RPM, so the amount of air getting into the cylinders is indeterminate.
Who cares if its indeterminate, its always indeterminate. Oops we let a few hundred hundred trillion extra molecules in that last induction cycle. The first EGR systems were much simpler then what we have now, but I bet the efficiency of modern systems has only improved by a few percent. I'm sure there is a flow that is optimal, but close enough is close enough.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:45 PM   #65
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I just blanked off the EGR, it was in the way of my coolant reroute
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:48 PM   #66
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So how many people are down for this? Trying to hit the 5 people price cut...
I think so far we have 3 interested.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #67
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Quote:
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So how many people are down for this? Trying to hit the 5 people price cut...
I think so far we have 3 interested.
As of now I am out unless someone can PROVE to me that this is ready to roll. To many variables and unknowns. I know that Travis is trying to do the right thing and nail it down, but without someone actually stepping up and saying that "I am using this on an NB and it works perfectly" instead of someone saying that some other guy in the UK or OZ might be using one, I'm waiting on the sidelines with a completed car and no ECU. First one with a proven product to market - Adaptronic or Begi Zoom 3 gets my money.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:01 PM   #68
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I am pretty much in the same boat.
This whole time I thought Travis had a 99+ car that he is running this on, and only recently I found out that he doesnt. That means there is no one here, that we know of, running this on a 99+ car successfully.
I am willing to guinea pig this product right now, but would need a 100% money back guarrantee if it doesnt work exactly as advertised. Willing to do a complete writeup if we work out a deal. I have my voodoo box and supra 305's to use as plan b till a complete pnp system comes out or I build a ms2 parallel, if this doesnt work out
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:56 PM   #69
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I'll give you a qauntity one price of 950 on it with a money back gauruntee. I mapped the outputs and inputs myself, I know its going to work. Unfortunately what Rob has said has kind of damaged my credibility on the issue, even though it was that he was just confused. I didn't know it was parallel, but thats just because I thought the wiring diagram was trying to say that some signals had inputs and not outputs. Turns out it really has a full parallel install adapter! The literature also never said anything about a parallel install, and my 94 doesn't use the stock computer at all.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:01 PM   #70
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Hard to know everything when you haven't personally tested the ecu. Do you stock them? Pics? Also, could you make a list of what's controlled by the adaptronic, what's shared by both ecu's, etc? I'm curious. I dug through this thread but I don't see all these answers, and I know some info was wrong, so could you lay it out now that everything is understood? Also, is your 94 adaptronic standalone or parallel?
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Also, is your 94 adaptronic standalone or parallel?

His is standalone, so I never held it against him when he said this was standalone for NB's. Seemed reasonable and he was passing on what Rob said. From what I gathered, NB's need to be piggy so the stock ECU can handle alternator, AC, etc. That doesn't really bother me either.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:43 PM   #72
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I'm curious, but I have a '96.

So it really doesn't matter that I'm curious at this point.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:18 PM   #73
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I sold my ms kit and am definitely in for this.

Will be running the stock engine initially, then a swapped in 2001+.

Any reason I can't just carry the alternator over to the new engine?

If not, is there a reason why the nb guys can't just get themselves na alternators to avoid the issue entirely?

And won't most hb installs have to be parallel to pass inspection, being that they're obd2?
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:21 PM   #74
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Any reason I can't just carry the alternator over to the new engine?

Me thinks that is what some of the 99 into pre 97 swaps have done with MS, so I don't know why not. I think Hustler did it because I sold him the alternator.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:23 PM   #75
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Yes you can swap a older alternator over and it will work. You can also put an older CAS and use that for your ignition input. And you can also put an older head on the car and it works too. Better would be to not have to change/buy all that though.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:24 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Yes you can swap a older alternator over and it will work. You can also put an older CAS and use that for your ignition input. And you can also put an older head on the car and it works too. Better would be to not have to change/buy all that though.
exactly what I was thinking

if you have to buy/change all that **** to make it work, might as well just go buy a hydra and have the very best.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:44 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
if you have to buy/change all that **** to make it work, might as well just go buy a hydra and have the very best.

I'd love to but I refuse to double my entire DIY turbo budget to add an ECU.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:48 PM   #78
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Here is the file of the outputs. Surprising I couldn't find the VVT input for the NBB on the aftermarket ECU. I have a feeling my Aussie friends simply didn't show it connected because it used multiple inputs or they forgot. I see it cut, but its not reconnected on the diagram to anything, and anything that is simply terminated has an X on it. I'll find out about that. They spent a very CONSIDERABLE amount of time writing code specifically for this NBB Miata VVT mechanism. It would be stupid if it wasn't plug and play.

I believe deliverator made the point he did because he is not going to be purchasing a plug and play loom. He is purchasing a .5m loom that he is hand wiring in to save some cash.

Also injector pulsewidth control down to .0007ms. These E.C.U.'s should be able to idle 1600cc injectors at 14.7:1 without a problem at that resolution.

www.boundaryengineering.com/harness.zip

Last edited by TravisR; 02-01-2009 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:56 AM   #79
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Travis, what's the max datalogging for say, 6 variables, into a laptop?
Does it use a USB or serial port?
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:50 AM   #80
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The ECU connects to your laptop via a serial connection.

The datalogging limit is the size of you hard-drive.

Phil at Performance 5 in the UK has installed quite a few adaptronics on NA/NB/NBB using PnP looms so its well proven in my eyes. The only question would be if there are any wiring differences between UK/Oz/USA.

Cheers
Matt
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