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Old 02-02-2008, 07:44 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Here is a result of placing a 8" x 6" x 1/4" steel plate with a 100 mil thick coating inside a furnace at 1600*F. The 1/4" steel plate took 60 minutes to reach just 1000*F. Look at the last page:

http://www.contegointernational.com/ASTM119UL263.pdf

And think of your turbo manifold. They get red hot but don't droop under the weight of the turbo and the exhaust.
Jason again your missing a major aspect of this.

A 100 mm coating is almost 4 inches..... coating of what? (PS i dont have pdf reader so i cant see the page)
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:23 PM   #222
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Not "the government". A few criminals mostly within the gov't.

Because the the WMD excuse was a lie to begin with. Do you actually believe Bush was telling you the truth when he said Saddam had WMD?

Actually, both Clintons, Madeline Albright(sp?), harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and MANY others said the EXACT sames things during the Clinton era and into Bush's years.....years before 9/11. And more recently, agents that interviewed SH before his hanging said his whole intentions were to make the world believe he had it. We just called his bluff.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:48 AM   #223
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Jason, Do me a favor. We all have an understanding of how 9/11 happened. Why dont you tell us your "story" of 9/11 starting from when the decision was made to bring down 3 buildings in NYC and attack the pentagon. Start at that meeting, up through the clean up effort.
You mean why doesn't he tell you the revisionist format that he is being fed, because he doesn't know anything about it for himself? ....off the pages right next store to the people who say the holocaust never happened.

How has someone not banned this guy yet?
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:53 AM   #224
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How has someone not banned this guy yet?
Because we are all enjoying watching him make a fool of himself....again
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:23 PM   #225
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Not "the government". A few criminals mostly within the gov't.

Because the the WMD excuse was a lie to begin with. Do you actually believe Bush was telling you the truth when he said Saddam had WMD?
The evidence was there to be able to say he had WMD, and was developing more. Iraq is mostly desert...and you can bury anything and never have it found. We are still finding stuff that was buried in the first Gulf War to keep it from being destroyed...IE aircraft, scud launchers, tanks, etc. If they can bury that and us not find it, why can't they hide a few filing cabinets and some development trucks/equipment?

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drewbroo, how long did that stuff you point to burn? The jet fuel from the planes was consumed in a few minutes; especially in the South tower, where most of it was consumed in a fireball *outside* the building, which I showed a pic of earlier. You also ignore the fact that firemen were able to report from the floor where the biggest fires were. If the fires were hot enough to soften steel (~1300*F or so), the firemen wouldn't be able to come close. There is also a radio transmission where the firemen said most of the fire was out - that what was left was a smoldering office fire.

You keep on looking at this from the point of view that it's impossible for the explosives to be planted and the people who did it not come out and blow the whistle. Set this aside for the moment and look objectively at all the physical evidence.
It's not the people who did that can't keep a secret, it's the thousands of people who would have had to see signs that haven't come forward. As soon as ONE person who worked in the buildings comes forward and says, "I saw bombs" or ANYTHING that says they were there, then I'll be right with you. Like I said before, I saw the layout of the core supports inside the elevator shafts and immediately though that they could put explosives there, away from prying eyes, and away from most of the impact from the planes. Then they stabbed a knife in their own theory...they mentioned the elevators were under going renovations. That puts people in the shafts at random times and random locations. If there were explosives, one of those techs would have seen it, and they would know it didn't belong cause that is their specialty. So I AM keeping an open mind on this.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:29 PM   #226
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Because we are all enjoying watching him make a fool of himself....again
Well, this isn't the first time I have had to deal with this, so I wouldn't call him a fool. He is just oblivious to some facts, and confused that a group of people who basicly live in caves can do this. It couldn't just be dumb-luck, cause it can't. There had to be more behind it. People just NEED it to be a conspiracy rather than live knowing that our enemies are not those who are close and easy to understand, but instead are a bunch of zealots who use low-tech to make big results.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:48 AM   #227
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Jason again your missing a major aspect of this.

A 100 mm coating is almost 4 inches..... coating of what? (PS i dont have pdf reader so i cant see the page)
100 mil not mm. 100 mil is 0.1". The WTC beams had much thicker fireproof insulation.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:52 AM   #228
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The evidence was there to be able to say he had WMD, and was developing more.
And you believe the official Nigerian yellowcake story?

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3792
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:57 AM   #229
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You mean why doesn't he tell you the revisionist format that he is being fed, because he doesn't know anything about it for himself? ....off the pages right next store to the people who say the holocaust never happened.
WTF are you talking about? I used to very much doubt the 911 explosives story UNTIL I looked at the evidence for myself. It is staring you in the face. People like you can have all the evidence staring you in the face, yet you continue to bury your heads in the sand pretending it doesn't exist. You are blind to the evidence because you can't take the truth that you are being lied to.

Do you think it's so impossible for a few criminals in government to want to pull something off like this? You have a very naive worldview if you think the world is only composed of Republicans, Democrats, and Islamists.

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How has someone not banned this guy yet?
For what? Have I ever done any name calling in this thread? Have I done anything other than show facts?

Why the anger? Does it insult you if your worldview is shaken up?

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 02-05-2008 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:09 AM   #230
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It's not the people who did that can't keep a secret, it's the thousands of people who would have had to see signs that haven't come forward.
Why do you assume thousands should see signs of explosives? If the service elevators near the core supports were closed "for renovations", why would anybody see them?

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Like I said before, I saw the layout of the core supports inside the elevator shafts and immediately though that they could put explosives there, away from prying eyes, and away from most of the impact from the planes. Then they stabbed a knife in their own theory...they mentioned the elevators were under going renovations. That puts people in the shafts at random times and random locations. If there were explosives, one of those techs would have seen it, and they would know it didn't belong cause that is their specialty. So I AM keeping an open mind on this.
What if an announcement was made saying it would undergo "renovations", but this was a cover for a bunch of guys to mount explosives? You're also assuming that the slide show information is 100% accurate - assuming that said "renovations" is exactly as you think it is. I don't assume the slideshow is 100% accurate, neither do I assume the official "facts" are 100% accurate. I look at the preponderance of evidence. So far the only thing in favor of the "official" story is the fact that pulling something off of this magnitude would be very difficult. All the other facts and physical evidence point to the explosives hypothesis.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:19 AM   #231
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Your ignoring the fact that the fuel was spread all over the floors when the planes hit.
I'm not ignoring that. Look at the videos, the big jet fuel fires ended several minutes after the crashes. You're ignoring the picture of the fireball OUTSIDE the South tower, which was hit 2nd, yet took a lot less time to collapse than the North tower.

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When the towers started to fall, the fuel was fed by the oxygen on the new floors. Back drafts are created. Superheated oxygen fed flames.
The whole tower fell in ~10 seconds. That is NOT enough time to heat the steel core. I showed data that it took 60 minutes for a 1/4" steel plate to reach 1000*F in a furnace set at >1600*F.

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Building codes for building over 100+ stories require them to have a collapsing structure.
Show me, I haven't heard this one before.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:20 AM   #232
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Showing 3 pictures and using that as representative of how all buildings fail is absurd let alone severely faulty logic.
That a building can fall at gravity free-fall acceleration due to destruction of a few floors, uses FAR more faulty logic.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:41 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
WTF are you talking about? I used to very much doubt the 911 explosives story UNTIL I looked at the evidence for myself. It is staring you in the face. People like you can have all the evidence staring you in the face, yet you continue to bury your heads in the sand pretending it doesn't exist. You are blind to the evidence because you can't take the truth that you are being lied to.

Do you think it's so impossible for a few criminals in government to want to pull something off like this? You have a very naive worldview if you think the world is only composed of Republicans, Democrats, and Islamists.

For what? Have I ever done any name calling in this thread? Have I done anything other than show facts?

Why the anger? Does it insult you if your worldview is shaken up?
Oh no, he used worldview! I feel like I'm back in high school AP History....

According to the revisionist propaganda from the 'no holocaust' nut cases... the holocaust didn't happen either. It just takes people who enjoy conspiracies and are bored with everyday life to be gullible enough. All you do is quote data from that report, its all data and information provided to you... nothing that you truely know... in other words... its all circumstantial evidence with a biased source... in otherwords... useless.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:44 AM   #234
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North tower, hit first, took 1 hour and 45 minutes to collapse; most of the fuel appeared to enter the building, because the plane hit dead on center:


South tower, took 1 hour to collapse; most of the fuel appears to have burned in a fireball outside the building due to the plane almost just glancing a corner; most of its fuel appears to have just gone through the building's corner and out the other side:
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:54 AM   #235
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On the sooty "cooler" flames, jet fuel burning off in <10 minutes, and the core design preventing a "chimney" effect:

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_ht...otations_2.htm

Kerosene burned off quickly – FEMA and NIST agree
Fuel = office contents
Black smoke means cooler, oxygen-poor fire
Lack of fuel in service cores
Core designed to prevent acting as a chimney in a fire (loki's theory)
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:02 AM   #236
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Oh no, he used worldview! I feel like I'm back in high school AP History....

According to the revisionist propaganda from the 'no holocaust' nut cases... the holocaust didn't happen either.
Again, WTF does the holocaust have to do with this? You are attempting to discredit me by lumping me with holocaust denialists, which I am not.

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It just takes people who enjoy conspiracies and are bored with everyday life to be gullible enough.
"enjoy conspiracies"? What's that supposed to mean? Do you think anybody would "enjoy" believing that 3,000 people were killed needlessly, that 5,000 soldiers have died, and half a million Iraqis? You are trying to attack me instead of the info I present.

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All you do is quote data from that report, its all data and information provided to you... nothing that you truely know... in other words... its all circumstantial evidence with a biased source... in otherwords... useless.
Wrong. I have posted photos and info from many sources, and stuff like experimental data of heating steel plate in a furnace.
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:43 PM   #237
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show me some video evidence or explosives blowing out each individual floor, and i will join your tin foil hat club. And were attacking you because you are the one presenting the flawed evidence. If you made a screen name flawed_EviD3nzE_911Denialman I would happily attack that one.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #238
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And you believe the official Nigerian yellowcake story?

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3792
Nope. I happened to be there when they uncovered a few 50gal drums of chemical weapons in our base, buried underground. Why it wasn't mentioned in the news, dunno, but it was a tiny amount, not enough to really prove he had stockpiles. So I don't need to READ about it, I saw it with my own eyes, and watched them dig it up and haul it off.

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Why do you assume thousands should see signs of explosives? If the service elevators near the core supports were closed "for renovations", why would anybody see them? What if an announcement was made saying it would undergo "renovations", but this was a cover for a bunch of guys to mount explosives?.
Cause there were WORKERS renovating the elevators at the time, which meant they would be roaming the elevator shafts at random times doing work. So the CIA dummy company did the explosives install under the cover of a legit elevator company?? They have not been uncovered as being such, so until then, they are a respectable company, with the same going for their employees. Therefore if they saw explosives, they would have mentioned it and it would have been an open and shut case. Therefore the explosives weren't in the elevator shafts, so that means in the customer areas...which means MORE PEOPLE would have to be in on it, and some also died for their cause. Again, the likelihood of a large group of people keeping it secret at all, little yet, for soo long, is so small that even considering it is irrational.

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You're also assuming that the slide show information is 100% accurate - assuming that said "renovations" is exactly as you think it is. I don't assume the slideshow is 100% accurate, neither do I assume the official "facts" are 100% accurate. I look at the preponderance of evidence. So far the only thing in favor of the "official" story is the fact that pulling something off of this magnitude would be very difficult. All the other facts and physical evidence point to the explosives hypothesis.
PROBABILITY is not in your favor. The chances of the WTC towers falling the way they did, as "suspicious" as you may think, as a result of the planes impact and ensuing explosion/fire are alot higher than the chances the conspiracy theories are right.

Look at the entire scenarios:

A: Planes were hijacked and rammed into the towers, causing them to collapse.

You have to have people willing to kill themselves for their beliefs, and funding. The actual event takes just a few hours, in which the chances of being caught and stopped are minimum.

B: Buildings are rigged with explosives and planes were used to cover-up the collapse from the explosives.

You have to have people willing to kill themsleves for their beliefs, and funding. You need people with backgrounds in building demolition (small field, too), and access to accurate building blueprints, and a large amount of explosives. You have to get people working for the same company that is going to be doing the renovations. You need to have weeks to install the charges correctly. You also have to do it in WTC7, without the cover of elevator modernization, and in a typical steel span building, which means you can't just hide them in the elevator shafts.

Weeks vs hours....which one do you think is more likely to hit a snafu and get compromised? The longer anything takes, the greater the odds of something going wrong. The more people involved, the greater the odds of something getting leaked.

Example: You are driving your car (it is a car forum, right?). Which would be more likely for your car to breakdown during: a 4hr trip or a 36hr trip? Now lets say you didn't breakdown, but you cut a few people off along the way. Which would make it more likely someone would find out: driving in your Miata with one passenger, or driving a bus with 60 passengers?

So when you start adding people, and/or adding time, you are exponentially increasing the chances of being discovered.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:10 PM   #239
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The evidence was there to be able to say he had WMD, and was developing more. Iraq is mostly desert...and you can bury anything and never have it found. We are still finding stuff that was buried in the first Gulf War to keep it from being destroyed...IE aircraft, scud launchers, tanks, etc. If they can bury that and us not find it, why can't they hide a few filing cabinets and some development trucks/equipment?



"A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who's gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all ******' night."





You mean to tell me this ******* thread hasn't been deleted yet?? Saaad...
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:56 PM   #240
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I think its all pretty clear that jason does not have any evidence but a belief and some conclusions based on faulty logic. He still has not done the simple tasks of walking us through the events leading up to the conspiracy but he is sure that the conspiracy occurred.

What was the end result fo the conspsiracy? War in Iraq, sure, but would there be better ways.. Like planting WMDs in Iraq? Seems alot easier (1 or 2 CIA agents) and quicker.

And again I am asking for proof that most of the fuel burned outside the building, and again i was showed a picture and jason claiming he proved it. Just waiting for some response. Whenever you get a chance from saving the world one consiracy theory at a time.
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