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Old 01-27-2008, 10:37 PM   #21
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I was just as skeptical about this whole deal as most people are, but I slogged through the (tons of) info and carefully came to my own conclusions, instead of jumping to a foregone conclusion.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:39 PM   #22
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I thought this would be about some kind of Porche 911 thing, oh well. I used to work in one of the towers. Security was extremely tight. To get a mess of explosives through would have required a tiny bit at a time, and hopefully not set off the explosive sniffing devices they used.
Like I said the explosive theory have unanswered q's too, but the 911 comission conclusion has waaaaaaay more.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Like I said the explosive theory have unanswered q's too, but the 911 comission conclusion has waaaaaaay more.
This is written by my least favorite publication of all time, but you might find it an entertaining read Jason
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=1
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:45 PM   #24
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I've read it and I've read the rebuttals of the people they were trying to debunk.

I have Griffin's book "debunking" the PopMech debunkers.

I am still leaning to explosives. Understand it took me a looooong time to come to my own conclusions. Same as you guys, I found it very, very hard to believe.

This presentation is the best single place I have seen for this info, which is why I linked it.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:50 PM   #25
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Natural gas is an explosive, also superheated jet fuel is too. Thats about as far as I will agree on this with you.

Also people don't realize the scale involved here. This was one of the largest buildings in the world. There are not many buildings close to its scale brought down in a controlled detonation.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:55 PM   #26
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First off, Who really cares?

Second off, Who REALLY cares?

According to Kanye West George Bush blew up the world trade center.. so we should all just believe him and get on with our lives.

I'm not wasting a second of my life reading some bullshit presentation put together by some left wing group hell bent on convincing the American people that George Bush secretively planted det cord, explosives , and cut supporting beams in the building, THEEEEEEEN hijacked 3 aircraft to run into the building. I'd rather go stab myself in the face with a ******* plastic spork. :fm:
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by drewbroo View Post
Natural gas is an explosive, also superheated jet fuel is too. Thats about as far as I will agree on this with you.

Also people don't realize the scale involved here. This was one of the largest buildings in the world. There are not many buildings close to its scale brought down in a controlled detonation.
Ahem. Jet fuels flash point is 98 degrees F. Jason, do some research on what caused TWA-800 to blow up after takeoff. 50 Gallons of 138 degree jet fuel, and a single spark.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:58 PM   #28
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I heard it was Bush and Cheney riding a Canadian cruise missile fired from a French submarine in DC on Sunday.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:58 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
The ensuing fire in the 3 buildings would not be enough to make the steel hot enough to yield - in the same way a steel grill in your fireplace doesn't melt.
Tell me what load a fireplace grill bears..
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
I'm not wasting a second of my life reading some bullshit presentation put together by some left wing group hell bent on convincing the American people ...
They're not a "left wing" group. I for one ******* hate left wingers. The presentation also doesn't say "Bush did it". It just says "explosives did it". Hell, maybe the terrorists got in there.

If you don't want to "waste your time", then don't read the presentation, but don't also say that those who've read it are wrong.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:03 PM   #31
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Tell me what load a fireplace grill bears..
The presentation goes through this argument. The temperature needed to make the steel beams lose half its strength is higher than what is plausible to have been reached by the fire. The design margin of the building is such that on a low-wind day like that, the steel is nowhere near stressed to half.

Multiple skyscrapers in the world have burned for far longer and did NOT collapse. One burnded for 17 hours, IIRC, with no deformation of the structural steel.

The other thing is if it had melted from the fire, the thing should have sagged assymetrically, not collapsed vertically at free-fall speed.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:04 PM   #32
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This was one of the largest buildings in the world. There are not many buildings close to its scale brought down in a controlled detonation.
That is neither here nor there.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:06 PM   #33
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There were also "squibs" evident in the videos - industry term for random mistimed explosions.

Building 7 collapsed with no airplane crashing into it. That looked even more like a classic demolition.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
First off, Who really cares?

Second off, Who REALLY cares?
2 wars were started on the pretext of 911, 5,000 soldiers died, and 500k Iraqis died, and you have paid something like $3,000 in taxes to pay for the war.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:21 PM   #35
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I can't watch the slideshow because I'm at work but let's get to the heart of the matter, WHO? and WHY? And if that website is affiliated with "Loose Change" at ALL, it's an automatic nut-job website.

And if it's a timed explosion, how do explain the fricking planes? And don't tell me they were missiles. And do you actually think the planners could keep that BIG of a secret for so long? Is Osama playing checkers with Cheney in the Batcave?

I've read through numorous reports but the most convincing one was done by Frontline (PBS), they debunked every conspiracy theory and were VERY in depth in their investigation. And in case you haven't noticed, Frontline and PBS in general are extremely left-slanting in their programming. I remember some experts from the show said that nothing of this magnitude has ever happened before. Sure, there's been smaller aircraft, but never a jet-liner. So for the architects/engineers to say "this could never happen", I say ," **** happens". Nothing is predictable. Remember also this was the SECOND attempt to topple the WTC by terrorists, or was the first one an "inside" job also? Well, I'm sure SOMEONE could cherry-pics facts and say that it was......
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Multiple skyscrapers in the world have burned for far longer and did NOT collapse. One burnded for 17 hours, IIRC, with no deformation of the structural steel.
Uh-huh.. and what sort of ginormous aircraft buried itself within such building before the fire..

also, once the building "sagged asymmetrically", the stress concentration on the beams grew, leading to collapse.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:28 PM   #37
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it seems someone is taking the forum title of < insert BS here > way too literally.

is there code in the software were users can ignore threads started by certain users? has jason posted anything helpful/useful so far on this forum?

his last 3 threads are:

-The 911 challenge thread
-Ron Paul's economic revitalization plan
-The history of money and banking

The last place I want to discuss politics with some fucktard is mt.net
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Exhondaman View Post
I can't watch the slideshow because I'm at work but let's get to the heart of the matter, WHO? and WHY? And if that website is affiliated with "Loose Change" at ALL, it's an automatic nut-job website.
It's not. The presentation is made by the people on the website ARCHITECTS and ENGINEERS for 911 truth.

Quote:
And if it's a timed explosion, how do explain the fricking planes?
There were planes. There were explosives. They are not mutually exclusive.

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And do you actually think the planners could keep that BIG of a secret for so long?
Doesn't need that many people.. just a bunch to place the explosives, a mastermind, everyone else on a need to know basis. The way covert operations are done is that the people let it on a few damning secrets are threatened NOT with their lives, but with lives of their relatives and friends. I agree it MUST be hard to do this... that's why I'm saying, look at the physical evidence.

Quote:
I've read through numorous reports but the most convincing one was done by Frontline (PBS), they debunked every conspiracy theory and were VERY in depth in their investigation. And in case you haven't noticed, Frontline and PBS in general are extremely left-slanting in their programming.
Left slanting or not is irrelevant. The pres'n explains PBS's misleading computer graphics of the building collapse.

Quote:
I remember some experts from the show said that nothing of this magnitude has ever happened before. Sure, there's been smaller aircraft, but never a jet-liner.
The building's designers DID consider a 707, which is about the same size as the planes that hit. The presentation has an interview of one of the designers on this VERY topic.

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So for the architects/engineers to say "this could never happen", I say ," **** happens".
And I say "look at the evidence" of both camps.

Quote:
Remember also this was the SECOND attempt to topple the WTC by terrorists, or was the first one an "inside" job also?
Irrelevant to the physical evidence and the explosives theory.

Quote:
Well, I'm sure SOMEONE could cherry-pics facts and say that it was......
This is why I spent lots of hours reading both the PopMech article, Griffin's reply, AND this presentation.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Uh-huh.. and what sort of ginormous aircraft buried itself within such building before the fire..

also, once the building "sagged asymmetrically", the stress concentration on the beams grew, leading to collapse.
Check out the presentation. It discusses all these.
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:38 PM   #40
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has jason posted anything helpful/useful so far on this forum?
One of my earliest posts:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...ighlight=dwell
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