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Old 01-28-2008, 08:06 PM   #81
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Is the video you used labeled in actual milliseconds? Perhaps it runs a little slow? I give no credibility to your belief, just asking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:08 PM   #82
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Is i the 100th floor or the 80th floor?
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:37 PM   #83
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i goes from 0 to 80, and the calculations assume the floors go from 80 to 0.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:41 PM   #84
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ok.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:43 PM   #85
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Theres a crucial flaw in your calculations and that is assuming that a demo'd building is in "free fall"
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:54 PM   #86
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Calculations,calculations, what about "Nothing of this magnitude has ever happened before?"

Jason, given your proffession, I'm sure there MUST be a calculated/predicted way for things to happens. But giving the magnitude of the destruction and wow factor, how can one say with 100% certainty how something SHOULD happen. Chaos Theory anyone?

I saw the slide last night and honestly, they lost me after that BBC freeze frame about WTC7 going down in what was obviosly a reporting error, yet they said something like, "BBC not going by the 9/11 script?", nikka-please. That and a few other remarks led me to believe they are just a bunch of conspiracy freaks. It was only mildy more informative then "Loose Change" *sarcastic*
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:07 PM   #87
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Theres a crucial flaw in your calculations and that is assuming that a demo'd building is in "free fall"
No it's backwards, the wtc collapsed at nearly free fall speed, which can happen during a demolition. My calcs say that if the building pancaked, with no resistance from the steel core, newton's law would say that it would take 2.5s longer than free fall. With resistance from the core, it would take longer still.

Have you seen a building that collapsed from an earthquake? Huge chunks of concrete, and a twisted steel skeleton. Not a pile of rubble with hardly any concrete chunks and truck length pieces of steel beams.

The OK building bombing... about half the building remained standing...
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:12 PM   #88
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****. I've been reading this thread all along with some consternation. I'm old enough to have lived through the Tripartite Committee and the Skull and Bones Cabal and the Jews-control-the-government eras. Know what? They're all true. If you don't think you're already bought and sold, you're just being naive. Just drink the Kool-Aid, you'll feel better. Maybe just eat one of those 9mm's and save yourself a world of heartache.

I'll bet the 13 engineers from my project felt really lucky that they could transfer to another one. I was screwed - project cancelled, I got laid off, so I wasn't riding the crest of the fireball from the second plane coming out my office window. I was watching from a hotel room in Maine.

Do I believe that one or both the major political parties would gladly sacrifice 3,000 of us regular folk for 4 years in power? Absolutely. Do I think they were smart enough to think of it before this? No.

Excuse me, I have to go now. I'm exploring more interesting uses for nitrous oxide.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:14 PM   #89
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Calculations,calculations, what about "Nothing of this magnitude has ever happened before?"

Jason, given your proffession, I'm sure there MUST be a calculated/predicted way for things to happens. But giving the magnitude of the destruction and wow factor, how can one say with 100% certainty how something SHOULD happen. Chaos Theory anyone?
Newton's 2nd law applied: If the burning floor collapsed, and the 20 story chunk of building above it fell down one floor's distance onto the remaining building, that 20 story chunk will slow down due to the inertia of the next floor... and the next, and the next. Which means the building should collapse slower than free fall. This assumes the remaining steel skeleton did NOT offer ANY resistance, which is very implausible. With any resistance, it would slow it further. Think about it.

Quote:
I saw the slide last night and honestly, they lost me after that BBC freeze frame about WTC7 going down in what was obviosly a reporting error, yet they said something like, "BBC not going by the 9/11 script?", nikka-please. That and a few other remarks led me to believe they are just a bunch of conspiracy freaks. It was only mildy more informative then "Loose Change" *sarcastic*
Ya the "911 script" thing is lame. I suspect what happened with BBC is that some reporter had misheard "wtc 7 is gonna collapse" and told BBC "it collapsed". There's a video of some firefighters and of Giuliani, where they were said they were told "it was gonna collapse" so they had to move their command center away. Now who told them this, is a mystery. What's weird is that #7 was not struck by any planes and did not appear to have any structural damage from debris.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:29 PM   #90
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****. I've been reading this thread all along with some consternation. I'm old enough to have lived through the Tripartite Committee and the Skull and Bones Cabal and the Jews-control-the-government eras. Know what? They're all true.
I really don't believe those groups have that much power - I have not seen consistent evidence. The groups that have been consistently documented are the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderberg Group. (the first 2 have websites) However, I don't believe for a minute that the members don't squabble over things. I don't believe the the zionist/illuminati stuff either. Even if it were true, it's largely irrelevant as the CFR/TC/BB are doing the obvious crap that we can and should stop. (e.g. global UN tax, NAFTA, WTO, NAU, SPP, Amero, the Fed, one world gov't). Those 3 groups subject of solid research by dozens of authors, and their findings are consistent.

I agree with what this guy wrote:
http://www.augustreview.com/issues/g...ey?_200511146/

Quote:
There are two common misconceptions held by those who are critical of globalism.

The first error is that there is a very small group of people who secretly run the world with all-powerful and unrestrained dictatorial powers. The second error is that there is a large amorphous and secret organization that runs the world. In both cases, the use of the word "they" becomes the culprit for all our troubles, whoever "they" might be. If taxes go up, it is "they" that did it. If the stock market goes down, "they" are to blame. Of course, nobody really knows who "they" are so a few figureheads (people or organizations) are often made out to be the scapegoats. ....
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Do I believe that one or both the major political parties would gladly sacrifice 3,000 of us regular folk for 4 years in power? Absolutely.
The parties are being manipulated in general, but I believe the people who knew about 911 are very, very few. And I do NOT think that the above 3 globalist groups were involved at all. I think 911 was planned by just a few individuals.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:45 PM   #91
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I think my point is -

If you believe this is all true then, logically, you and I and everybody else has already lost. You just want to agonize a bunch more before you accept your manifest powerlessness. Only a fool fights in a burning house(good quote, eh?. Stole it from Star Trek).

I'm outta here.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:09 PM   #92
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You all need to watch a movie called American Zeigeist.
Here: http://www.watch-movies.net/movies/american_zeitgeist/

It all may or may not be true, but definately gets you thinking. Most of facts stated on this film has backbone to prove it and you can research it yourself if you are in disbelief. Just to get you thinkin of course. Not spouting propaganda or anything. I am currently serving in the United States Air Force and I love my country and wouldn't do anything to compromise its image or safety, but this is a very interesting topic.

BTW, a missle hit a Pentagon, not a jet and its on film. Jet Fuel cannot burn hot enough to make four, 6-ton engines made of steel and titanium disappear FYI.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:47 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by mr_mazda329 View Post
You all need to watch a movie called American Zeigeist.
Here: http://www.watch-movies.net/movies/american_zeitgeist/

It all may or may not be true, but definately gets you thinking. Most of facts stated on this film has backbone to prove it and you can research it yourself if you are in disbelief. Just to get you thinkin of course. Not spouting propaganda or anything. I am currently serving in the United States Air Force and I love my country and wouldn't do anything to compromise its image or safety, but this is a very interesting topic.

BTW, a missle hit a Pentagon, not a jet and its on film. Jet Fuel cannot burn hot enough to make four, 6-ton engines made of steel and titanium disappear FYI.

Okay... you have insulted everyone in Air Force who were there when it happened in DC. I have 2 friends both who worked PSD that day, and saw the plane fly into the pentagon. One of them was my supervisor, the other was a fellow instructor of mine. There were also many other witnesses too. Over 50,000 statements were collected on an AIRPLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON. Wreckage from the plane was also recovered too.

Thats bullshit. You're also insulting the families of people who died on that plane that crashed into the pentagon. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting anyones idea on that matter. BTW I'm in to Air Force too, your spouting something that has been investigated far beyond your pay grade, by people who are far more experienced in the matter. Just because you can watch a presentation doesn't make you qualified by any means to make a judgment on an actual event. Whats next? The Holocaust didn't happen either, you ******* people make me sick.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:52 PM   #94
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BTW, a missle hit a Pentagon, not a jet and its on film. Jet Fuel cannot burn hot enough to make four, 6-ton engines made of steel and titanium disappear FYI.

LOL, you obviosly haven't done enough research or watched Loose Change too many times. Not only were the titanium compressor section recovered, but also the APU (if you're in the air force, you should know that term).
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:19 PM   #95
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LOL, you obviosly haven't done enough research or watched Loose Change too many times. Not only were the titanium compressor section recovered, but also the APU (if you're in the air force, you should know that term).
Of course I know what it means. I work on the damn thing and hate them. Auxiallary Power Unit (APU) aka finiky junk that hates the heat in the desert and cause premature shutdown. They are Used to start Jet Engines by producing large volume of air at low pressure (25psi). Ours are called Turbomach APU's which start our F108 engines (CFM56 for civilians).
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:37 PM   #96
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Newton's 2nd law applied: If the burning floor collapsed, and the 20 story chunk of building above it fell down one floor's distance onto the remaining building, that 20 story chunk will slow down due to the inertia of the next floor... and the next, and the next. Which means the building should collapse slower than free fall. This assumes the remaining steel skeleton did NOT offer ANY resistance, which is very implausible. With any resistance, it would slow it further. Think about it.
I still havent seen anything that says the building fell at free fall speeds.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:40 PM   #97
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this is a stupid arguement. no matter what anyone says, no-one here is going to change their minds. i dont think al-queda brought down those building, and i can not say anything to change the peoples minds that think thats what did happen.

IMO the fact that some dudes in a cave can bring the most powerfull country in the world to its knees so easy is a way bigger conspiracy than our own government doing it. just look at all the new laws put in after 9/11. the greatest way to control is through fear. ever hear of the shock doctrine?
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:44 PM   #98
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I still havent seen anything that says the building fell at free fall speeds.
It's in the presentation. It fell about 1 sec slower than free fall IIRC.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:53 PM   #99
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No it's backwards, the wtc collapsed at nearly free fall speed, which can happen during a demolition. My calcs say that if the building pancaked, with no resistance from the steel core, newton's law would say that it would take 2.5s longer than free fall. With resistance from the core, it would take longer still.

Have you seen a building that collapsed from an earthquake? Huge chunks of concrete, and a twisted steel skeleton. Not a pile of rubble with hardly any concrete chunks and truck length pieces of steel beams.

The OK building bombing... about half the building remained standing...
No this wasnt an earthquake. The building was alread damaged from fire and debris from centers 1 and 2.

A quick note that I couldnt find "the truth" about on the conspiracy websites was the way the building distributed its load to the foundation.

It started when i read this

"Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)"

I thought hmmm the atrium was so evident that the fire department was aware of it.

So i looked at the load distribution..


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Old 01-29-2008, 12:00 AM   #100
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So what a coincidence. Maybe the plan was so well orchestrated that they flew planes into Centers 1 and 2, killing thousands along with firefighters and other emergency personnel. Causing fire in WTC7 and damage from the debris field.

But in that building they called everyone out (cause its a masterful plan, but they forgot to do that in WTC1 and 2) or maybe the firefighters saw the dangers that a skyscraper thats already experienced untold damage to its structural integrity.

Either way. Look at the truss loading its obvious why the first floor failed. For those who argue that the all the member failed at once and thats im possible. THe members are not independent of each other. If they were the size of the building per usable space would be useless $$ wise.

The best way to explain this is to think of a cylinder in torsion. When the member fails does it fail across the whole surface area? Eventually yes for for a moment in time only a portion of the member failed. But that failed section now has decreased the surface area and now the next section fails. This happens so rapidly its almost hard to conceptualize.
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