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Old 01-29-2008, 12:02 AM   #101
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Now my question, if they have the ability to plan this all, the plans the explosions (and they get away with it) why not just use a 3rd a 4th a 5th airplane to guarantee there wouldn't be such scrutiny from such brilliant citizens.

Please not that this is only the case for WTC7, if anyone pulls this **** on WTC1 and 2 its even more obvious because of the debris field.

So lets back up. You have two building damaged at high floors. They fail at those floors. Pretty clearcut.

But now you have a building that has a rather unusual load distribution that experiences fire and damage from falling debris. Why destroy the footings of the building (it is so obviously a demolition job) why not just start a fire on the 35th floor and blow that floor. The structure was definitely not designed to take the impact load from the falling floors.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:03 AM   #102
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I think my point is -

If you believe this is all true then, logically, you and I and everybody else has already lost.
I disagree. If one were to believe that the purpose of 911 is (a) to invade Afghaninstan and Iraq and (b)to implement the Patriot Act, the various EO's, NSPD's, and Homeland Security, and to believe that the globalists are pushing a one-world-government... there are only 5 guidelines the masses need to measure every law against, and pressure Congress to vote in accordance with:

1) Does the proposed law increase or decrease individual liberty? (for example, the Patriot Act tramples on the Bill of Rights)

2) Does the proposed law increase the size, scope, and power of government, and increase the centralization of power? (e.g. anything that increases gov't spending or taxes, and anything that concentrates power, such as Homeland Security)

3) Is the proposed law pro free market? (e.g. Sarbanes Oxley is is a piece of **** legislation simply to create more demand for accountants and auditors; almost all gov't regulation is written BY and FOR the big corporations to the detriment of small business, such as again, Sarbanes Oxley)

4) Does the proposed law increase or decrease national sovereignty? (e.g. NAFTA, WTO and other fake free trade agreements that require law changes in member nations ... the UN bombing of Iraq in the 90s - we should have told the UN to go **** off and bomb Iraq themselves, after all, we kicked Saddam out of Kuwait (after baiting him, but that's another story))

5) Foreign policy - does it promote non-interventionism and increase friendship and trade (for example, the embargo on Cuba is illogical)

If laws are passed in accordance with these principles, the CFR/TC/BB groups will be stopped in their tracks and will be powerless. One doesn't even have to believe in any conspiracies - one only needs to believe that the above 5 principles are what made this nation great.

Homeland Security and the Patriot Act were NOT needed to prevent 911. For ****'s sake, box cutters weren't allowed on planes before 911, the airport screeners were just doing a terrible job!!! And, there were many, many warnings from foreign intelligence agencies, and the FBI, before 911!

It's like this ******* who says "Illegal racing at "ridiculous" levels in U.S., one law enforcement official says":
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/22/str...ing/index.html
The bastard cries wolf and plays up the problem so that his department can get more budget money.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:07 AM   #103
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Jason your math doesn't include two important aspects. The total kinetic energy of falling building and the deceleration rate when one floor collapses into another

And then i was thinking, man i could have sworn ive seen debris falling from the buidling (which would'nt happened if it fell at "free fall rate" cause it would all be the same)

Ooooh yeah thats right.

That would be debris from higher floors (at true free fall speed) falling faster than the pancaking building .

No offense jason. Your probably awesome at electronics, but your structural knowledge (or lack of), your simplistic mathcad code, and lack of statics (most freshman to sophomore Civil Engineers can debunk this with a truss diagram) is really unconvincing.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:11 AM   #104
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Now my question, if they have the ability to plan this all, the plans the explosions (and they get away with it) why not just use a 3rd a 4th a 5th airplane to guarantee there wouldn't be such scrutiny from such brilliant citizens.
Maybe they ran out of virgins?


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But now you have a building that has a rather unusual load distribution that experiences fire and damage from falling debris. Why destroy the footings of the building (it is so obviously a demolition job) why not just start a fire on the 35th floor and blow that floor. The structure was definitely not designed to take the impact load from the falling floors.
There is a video on slide 22 showing a demolition gone wrong. The 1st floor blew out, and the 2nd floor on up, dropped down, and the building swayed... and stopped. It didn't collapse. Maybe most buildings can take the impact load of dropping one floor, even with the entire building's weight.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:17 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
There is a video on slide 22 showing a demolition gone wrong. The 1st floor blew out, and the 2nd floor on up, dropped down, and the building swayed... and stopped. It didn't collapse. Maybe most buildings can take the impact load of dropping one floor, even with the entire building's weight.

See thats a major fallacy. Without looking at the building plans for every building along with that city/state building codes you can't make that assumption. Anyone who does is naive to building construction and how cities work. To build a building to survive the entire building dropping a floor would be a bad engineering design. Not to mention no investor would pay for it, knowing thats how it was designed. Smaller buildings yes (most because of the yielding point of the metal, still in placisity) when the impact load gets larger (from larger buildings) the material yields and fails almost instantly.

The reason is that for surface area to double (ie 5x5x5 to 10x10x10) the volume (and inherit structural mass) increases 4x
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:22 AM   #106
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Now forget the crazy tin foil hat conspiracy's. I am questioning the science behind these claims.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:28 AM   #107
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Jason your math doesn't include two important aspects. The total kinetic energy of falling building and the deceleration rate when one floor collapses into another
My assumption was as the upper part crashes into the next floor, it's an inelastic collision, and so momentum is preserved. And again, if the core offered any reistance, it would slow it down further.

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And then i was thinking, man i could have sworn ive seen debris falling from the buidling (which would'nt happened if it fell at "free fall rate" cause it would all be the same)
I mentioned that it took 1 second longer than free fall. The inelastic collisions scenario says that it should have taken 2.5s longer.

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...Your probably awesome at electronics, but your structural knowledge (or lack of),
And this is why I defer to the presentation, and its interviews of the building designers, etc. Again it would help if NIST released their computer models. Note again that they didn't model the pancaking. They only modelled the initial collapse. The pancaking animations in the various popular media either omit, or show core members thinner than they really are.

Even that animation modelling done by Purdue has me wondering if it's really possible for the core members to be severed by plane bits. Those core members are thick! The single biggest piece of metal is probably the engines - I can't imagine a flying chair or bulkhead severing one of those members. It's like Mythbusters flying playing cards that can't penetrate skin - no matter how fast they could make them fly.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:44 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post

Even that animation modelling done by Purdue has me wondering if it's really possible for the core members to be severed by plane bits. Those core members are thick! The single biggest piece of metal is probably the engines - I can't imagine a flying chair or bulkhead severing one of those members. It's like Mythbusters flying playing cards that can't penetrate skin - no matter how fast they could make them fly.
Jason your missing the point. I can cute 6 inches of steel with water! you have to remember its the velocity over mass. V^2
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:56 AM   #109
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OK - but someone needs to model the "global collapse" pancaking.

There are several more observations that would be explained by explosives:
- pulverization of concrete
- molten metal in the rubble
- horizontal ejection of portions of steel beams at 55 mph
- FEMA's findings of thermate spectrographic signatures, ditto EPA investigating health complaints about the dust
- beams' broken ends not sheared but appearing cut by thermate
- "squibs" visible in the videos of all 3 buildings' collapsing
- "meteorites" of iron (cooled down blobs of molten metal)

It's very strange that the mess was cleaned up and shipped out quickly for "recycling" and not preserved for later investigation.
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:09 AM   #110
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- pulverization of concrete

Irrelvant, any building collapse is going to have pulverized concrete (especially of that size)

- molten metal in the rubble

THats from explosives? They use explosives that create molten steel? (yes ive never heard or seen that before on other demos, in fact they usually wet it down to contain the dust and start cleaning up the same day)

- horizontal ejection of portions of steel beams at 55 mph
- FEMA's findings of thermate spectrographic signatures, ditto EPA investigating health complaints about the dust

I need to see the report. I know they found sulfur the same **** thats in drywall, i haven't seend evidence they found thermate. If they havent found it and only found its signatures, all i have to say is duhhh thats rust

- beams' broken ends not sheared but appearing cut by thermate

If they were cut with thermate, there would have had to be someone there, and since it apepars that way tell me how much thermate would be needed to cut through those beams (ya know the ones that a airplane traveling hudreds of miles per hour coundlt cut through)

- "squibs" visible in the videos of all 3 buildings' collapsing

I must have missed that class, I dont know what squibs are or where they were seen. Elaborate

- "meteorites" of iron (cooled down blobs of molten metal)

Take a peice of metal and bend it back and forth alot. I mean lot. Till it fails. Now feel it. Its hot. Do this a million ******* times with steel thats already on fire.


It's very strange that the mess was cleaned up and shipped out quickly for "recycling" and not preserved for later investigation.

It was shipped offsite and investigates. Cause they were doing dna testing on any remains they had.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:04 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post

It's very strange that the mess was cleaned up and shipped out quickly for "recycling" and not preserved for later investigation.

Its called cleanup for search and rescue too. They had many bodies they had to recover from the rubble. Its all VERY VERY simple. most of us witnessed it happen on NATIONAL ******* TELEVISION. As crazy as the media is, you should know they would have been reporting explosions happening, and missiles hitting the pentagon. Because that would have made ratings.

Its a waste of time for anyone to look into it. It was a disaster, a terrorist caused disaster. Just accept it. Its as easy to prove as the moon landing. (The landing site is still there. and has been photographed many times since by various high res telescopes and satellites.)

Just save yourself some time, go read some books on something that may help progress humanity in some way for the better.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:30 AM   #112
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Squibs are the industry term for mistimed explosions, evident as puffs from windows below the demolition "wave". In the presentation, there was a side by side video of the tower collapse and a known demolition.

Quote:
Take a peice of metal and bend it back and forth alot. I mean lot. Till it fails. Now feel it. Its hot. Do this a million ******* times with steel thats already on fire.
It looks nothing like that. It looks like a... blob.

drewbroo, re: the media:I have very, very little faith in the corporate media:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:41 AM   #113
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No offence... but Wiki links are hardly acceptable convincing means for me. I have seen the media report many national security compromising things. They also put soldiers lives at risk on a regular basis. I was in Afghanistan after they said some Korans were flushed down a toilet. (Never happened, and was proved that it was false.) And the locals retaliated and rioted, I almost got hit by a 107 that night while I was on patrol. The media is cutthroat and greedy, all they care about is stories now. All the "mocking bird" crap went out the window after the cold war was over.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:41 AM   #114
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Here's a tech article about the conservation of momentum:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/a...ansferRoss.pdf

and about projectiles:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...nsEvidence.pdf

And you can peruse a bunch of tech articles in the blue column on the left:
http://www.ae911truth.org/#techarts
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:48 AM   #115
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No offence... but Wiki links are hardly acceptable convincing means for me. ... All the "mocking bird" crap went out the window after the cold war was over.
Wiki is one of many, many links on Operation Mockinbird. Saying it isn't true because it's on Wiki is like saying the sky isn't blue because [email protected] said the sky is blue.


More on the mass media and the corporate interests that control them:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...55652046262625

(FIVE corporations own the mass media now)
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:06 AM   #116
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Its still all heresay. Bad reporting does have to be corrected. That may have been many of the cases. The CIA sometimes has shitty investigating. People screw up, and when something tragic happens the weakest links are revealed.... thats life
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:45 AM   #117
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:27 AM   #118
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Jason, please tell me how much thermite would be needed to bring down the building.
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:20 PM   #119
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No idea. Did you check out the links?
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:21 PM   #120
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No. I am asking you to support your "belief"
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