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Old 03-09-2011, 12:34 AM   #141
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Where did all of the matter and/or energy come from? What preceded it? If the "universe" is expanding, then it must have a finite size and thus an outer boundary- what lies beyond this boundary?
It may help you to think of 'infinite' not as 'without size', but rather as 'not size'.
Similarly, eternity is described by many as 'an awfully long time' in reality, it is 'not time'. Both similar to how fractals are 'eternal and infinite'.


The only truth one can draw from this is, 'it just is'.

Now to address the 'God' sub-topic of the thread...

According to the Judeo-Christian tradition/writings, God says 'I Am'.
Again, in the J/C tradition, the origin of life has no bearing on God's existance. The origin, no matter how its done, has no bearing on salvation which is a key concept of Christianity. Salvation is based on value.
Value always comes from an outside source. People are constantly attempting to define their value by what they have, what they're capable of and what other people say they're worth (among other things). Most all the things we believe 'give' us value, are temporal and finite. we can lose these at any time.
God , the soveriegn being that he is, says that we have an inherent value to him. For this to be incapable of losing, it must be infinite and eternal.

They're proud of me here at the asylum...

Last edited by RattleTrap; 03-09-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: punktooashun...
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:01 PM   #142
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That's deeeeeeep.
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:30 AM   #143
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I've downloaded the "preview" of it for Kindle- looks like the first chapter or so. I'll give it a read.

There's one thing (or rather, several related things) which I want to be clear on, and which I realize not everyone may have immediately grasped on a first reading of my last few posts:

Nothing which I have written should be interpreted as a claim that any or all of the physical processes which we have come to refer to as evolution, the "big bang", etc., absolutely did not take place. I realize that this assumption is a commonly accepted axiom (by both sides) when discussing modern interpretations of the Christian religion, but I simply do not see why that must be the case.

To the contrary, I see no problem in admitting that all of the matter in the universe as we currently perceive it may well have exploded outwards from a singularity quite a long time ago, or that life on earth, including mammalian life, may have undergone a progressive development, changing in form over a long span of time.

Where I differ with the conventional tenets of atheism is this: Why must the aforementioned processes have occurred spontaneously and randomly? Why is it inconceivable that these processes might have been set into motion and/or guided by God?


Let's say that there is no God, godlike entity, etc. If that's the case, and if we have an answer for everything (or at least a theory about it) then riddle me this:

Where did all of the matter and/or energy come from? What preceded it? If the "universe" is expanding, then it must have a finite size and thus an outer boundary- what lies beyond this boundary?

I don't know the answers, and I freely admit this. I feel reasonably confident, however, in positing that they are not "nowhere" and "nothing."
There are many very good theories kicking around about what caused the Big Bang and how our "universe" fits into the greater spectrum of things.

If you ask Stephen Hawking, he'll say, "you just have to believe something came from nothing" on the subject of what caused the big bang. I just dont buy it. People just use "god" to try and explain things they dont understand. We understand such a tiny portion of reality but we uncover more and more with time.

For example, just because we cannot mathematically solve the 3-body problem doesn't mean that there isn't a solution.

**** I should really stop posting on here when i'm drinking.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:56 AM   #144
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There are many very good theories kicking around about what caused the Big Bang and how our "universe" fits into the greater spectrum of things.

If you ask Stephen Hawking, he'll say, "you just have to believe something came from nothing" on the subject of what caused the big bang. I just dont buy it. People just use "god" to try and explain things they dont understand. We understand such a tiny portion of reality but we uncover more and more with time.

For example, just because we cannot mathematically solve the 3-body problem doesn't mean that there isn't a solution.

**** I should really stop posting on here when i'm drinking.



You disagree with Hawking one sentence and the very next sentence as if to support or explain the assertion you agree with him.


IMOO the existence of life doesn't conflict with entropy. Any more than mountians or complex river systems do not conflict with entropy.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:02 PM   #145
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People just use "god" to try and explain things they dont understand.
How is it correct to where our entire society is based on something you dont believe in but yet you expect me to be part of it? You... being society not you personally obviously.



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For example, just because we cannot mathematically solve the 3-body problem doesn't mean that there isn't a solution.
Bingo^. Do we call it god and go to church on sunday and pray for it? Do we sacrafice women? Do we call a person with a solution witch and cruelly assassinate them?
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:04 AM   #146
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How is it correct to where our entire society is based on something you dont believe in but yet you expect me to be part of it? You... being society not you personally obviously.
You don't have to stand up when they sing god bless america at ballgames...

Last edited by olderguy; 03-11-2011 at 12:25 PM. Reason: sp (sign-sing)
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:11 PM   #147
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You don't have to stand up when they sing god bless america at ballgames...
Well I stand up because i respect the country.
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:01 PM   #148
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Well I stand up because i respect the country.
you mean the one that promises freedom of religion?
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:57 AM   #149
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You're either falling for the bullshit "theory" propaganda or are just being stupid. A scientific theory is different than a general theory.

Has the pythagorean theorem challenged your belief system lately? Is calculating the length of the hypotenuse by taking the square of the sum of the squares of the other two sides of a right triangle somehow based on opinion?
Point taken, except it is much easier for me to test the pythagorean theorem using the scientific method (Hell, I do this on a daily basis when i tutor trig students) than it is to test or observe evolution of a lifeform from a rock or inanimate object/space poop .
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:35 AM   #150
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southernmx5, if you want one, PM me, I'll send you a copy of the book "Greatest Show on Earth". It goes through several examples of experiments "observing evolution in action".
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:18 PM   #151
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Point taken, except it is much easier for me to test the pythagorean theorem using the scientific method (Hell, I do this on a daily basis when i tutor trig students) than it is to test or observe evolution of a lifeform from a rock or inanimate object/space poop .
haha nailed the trig tutor with pythagoras!

seriously though, just because something is harder to do than right triangles doesn't mean it's less plausible.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:21 PM   #152
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haha nailed the trig tutor with pythagoras!

seriously though, just because something is harder to do than right triangles doesn't mean it's less plausible.
Ever try to strike a match on a wet bar of soap??
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Old 03-12-2011, 03:51 PM   #153
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Point taken, except it is much easier for me to test the pythagorean theorem using the scientific method (Hell, I do this on a daily basis when i tutor trig students) than it is to test or observe evolution of a lifeform from a rock or inanimate object/space poop .
You are number sin^2x+cos^2x.
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Old 03-12-2011, 05:29 PM   #154
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southernmx5, if you want one, PM me, I'll send you a copy of the book "Greatest Show on Earth". It goes through several examples of experiments "observing evolution in action".
Sure man, Thanks.

lulz at pythagorean identities . I appreciate/tolerate views from both atheists and religious folks... even when i agree to disagree.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:11 AM   #155
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you mean the one that promises freedom of religion?
Promising freedom of religion doesnt mean much when some of our laws that control everybody are based on religion.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:22 AM   #156
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Ever try to strike a match on a wet bar of soap??
Just takes the right kind of match, Older!
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:53 PM   #157
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Promising freedom of religion doesnt mean much when some of our laws that control everybody are based on religion.
that's true. it's sort of ingrained in this country's early history.

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Old 03-14-2011, 03:04 PM   #158
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You are number sin^2x+cos^2x.
I lol'd

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you mean the one that promises freedom of religion?
You have it as long as it does not infringe on someone elses right... Christians included.
It gets cut off when other peoples rights are infringed upon.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:08 PM   #159
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I lol'd



You have it as long as it does not infringe on someone elses right... Christians included.
It gets cut off when other peoples rights are infringed upon.
You mean like gay people? Or do they not count.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #160
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You mean like gay people? Or do they not count.
Gay people can count fine; they just have a problem multiplying.
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