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Old 03-14-2011, 10:06 PM   #161
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You mean like gay people? Or do they not count.
Don't worry, civil union will happen. But the people don't want it yet. It is a state decision, it was left to the people. It was a vote on the TN ballot. I voted against it, as did most Tennesseans. So, there you have it. America doesn't want it. All the representatives are doing is their job, and conveying the peoples voice. Live together.. fine. I don't care. I am fine with the don't ask don't tell being repealed too. It will happen, when the people decide that it isn't a threat to them.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:02 AM   #162
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Touché.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:27 AM   #163
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Will be pretty awesome if it pans out. Maybe something like this could put NASA back in the public's eye and get more funding for our space programs.
I would say not likely. Many people are too narrow minded. "Bacteria, big deal, where is ET". People don't understand how important this is, though I think it is no surprise at all. At least now there is proof, though I'm sure a lot of people will try to disprove it or explain it away *cough* hard core religious people.
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:57 AM   #164
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I would say not likely. Many people are too narrow minded. "Bacteria, big deal, where is ET". People don't understand how important this is, though I think it is no surprise at all. At least now there is proof, though I'm sure a lot of people will try to disprove it or explain it away *cough* hard core religious people.

Proof of what? 150 year old rocks have contamination? What would alien bacteria prove? Did you just skip everything? It was determined infact that it wasn't bacteria. I also think that all of the "hard core religious people" said that there is no explaining that needs to be done. In our book that you think is so stupid, It doesn't say that there isn't life or even poop bacteria in space or other planets. I would be psyched if it were for real. I love finding out new things. You would do great in a deployed location, we always need someone to stir the pot of burning ****. You seem to accel at it.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:26 AM   #165
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Don't worry, civil union will happen. But the people don't want it yet. It is a state decision, it was left to the people. It was a vote on the TN ballot. I voted against it, as did most Tennesseans. So, there you have it. America doesn't want it. All the representatives are doing is their job, and conveying the peoples voice. Live together.. fine. I don't care. I am fine with the don't ask don't tell being repealed too. It will happen, when the people decide that it isn't a threat to them.
civil rights aren't supposed to be subject to the will of the people.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:59 PM   #166
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civil rights aren't supposed to be subject to the will of the people.
I am surprised that it hasn't happened actually. I thought Cali would do it before. To me there is a huge difference between marriage and civil union. I don't care either way these days. I know how you all feel about the religion thing, but that is why I voted the way I did. If it passed, well, I could care less. I am kind of indifferent to it. I see your arguement and I agree to an extent. Women overcame, and black people overcame, it will happen. I don't support it, but there are more important things for me to focus on to waste my time protesting against it. I don't see much coming from it other than tax benifits, but I know that it is more than that. It is about equal rights. But the guys running things put it to a vote, so I voted. But this is also a state that didn't have a seat belt law up until 6-7 years ago.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:03 PM   #167
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Bingo. No individual rights should be subject to the will of the people.

How would you like it if 51% voted to outlaw aftermarket turbos?
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #168
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I'll ask the obvious question. If you ultimately don't care, and you agree that the only real difference is the tax and legal benefits, why vote against it?
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:11 PM   #169
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Ah, just re-read your post. You vote because the church tells you too. Nvm, I didn't catch it the first time thru.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:12 PM   #170
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I'll ask the obvious question. If you ultimately don't care, and you agree that the only real difference is the tax and legal benefits, why vote against it?



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Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
I am surprised that it hasn't happened actually. I thought Cali would do it before. To me there is a huge difference between marriage and civil union. I don't care either way these days. I know how you all feel about the religion thing, but that is why I voted the way I did. If it passed, well, I could care less. I am kind of indifferent to it. I see your arguement and I agree to an extent. Women overcame, and black people overcame, it will happen. I don't support it, but there are more important things for me to focus on to waste my time protesting against it. I don't see much coming from it other than tax benifits, but I know that it is more than that. It is about equal rights. But the guys running things put it to a vote, so I voted. But this is also a state that didn't have a seat belt law up until 6-7 years ago.
Done wroteedd it. I will concede, that if you look into it, the situation wasn't quite handled properly, and maybe it shouldn't have been put to a vote. I voted the way I voted. It was a one time thing, and that is all I am willing to do to stop it. Like I said, It would be a waste of my time to pursue it either way. I know why the politicians did what they did. Tennessee is conservative... and that was a fantastic way to keep votes. I can imagine the political suicide of saying that civil rights are not for the people to decide as a republican in TN.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:22 PM   #171
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I don't see why civil unions should be allowed without undergoing the same reasoning for state-recognized marriages. Namely, tax and legal benefits are in place because the state believed that more marriages created a more stable and productive society -- therefore, the state made it its business to provide incentives to marry.

Now, one of two things needs to happen:

(1) If we continue to assume government has the proper authority to encourage marriage on these grounds, then it must be determined if civil unions also result in a more stable and productive society.

(2) If we reject the notion that government has the proper authority to encourage or discourage marriage, then we ought to tell the state to leave our personal relationships alone. This, of course, would result in the loss of any tax and legal benefits for married couples, which many (even libertarians) are loathe to pursue.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:36 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I don't see why civil unions should be allowed without undergoing the same reasoning for state-recognized marriages. Namely, tax and legal benefits are in place because the state believed that more marriages created a more stable and productive society -- therefore, the state made it its business to provide incentives to marry.

Now, one of two things needs to happen:

(1) If we continue to assume government has the proper authority to encourage marriage on these grounds, then it must be determined if civil unions also result in a more stable and productive society.

(2) If we reject the notion that government has the proper authority to encourage or discourage marriage, then we ought to tell the state to leave our personal relationships alone. This, of course, would result in the loss of any tax and legal benefits for married couples, which many (even libertarians) are loathe to pursue.
Good well thought out post. Number 1 is clearly the option. I don't know if they will. I see the reasoning behind marriage making things more productive. I am more responsible since I am married, less prone to stupid behavior. I have a household to support, and people to take care of. If I had kids then it would be more so. It encourages one to stay with the same job, go to school, and look for other opportunities that one that is not in that situation may not be motivated to undertake. How will that fit into civil union for same sex couples? I could see that with a few exceptions. I am not in that situation, so I wouldn't know, but I have lived with another guy before, and none of that stuff was there. I also wasn't pounding his poop shoot. I think, in a broad perspective, that there are so few of those situations, that politicians don't bring that into account, because it would be such a small percentage of our society.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #173
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See, I'm not sure the choice is clear at all. I lean strongly to option #2.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
civil rights aren't supposed to be subject to the will of the people.
+1, Well said.

50% of marrages end in divorce, yet no religious organizations/people seem to much of a problem with straight people getting married whenever they goddamn well feel like it, for whatever valed or invalid reason they come up with. Think about Vegas, where people get **** faced and decide to get married on a whim, it doesn't last a week but who cares since their straight just like god intended, right?
The gov shouldn't use the term marriage, replace it with civil union and let everybody get one, then everybody is a bit more equal.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:01 PM   #175
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Proof of what? 150 year old rocks have contamination? What would alien bacteria prove? Did you just skip everything? It was determined infact that it wasn't bacteria. I also think that all of the "hard core religious people" said that there is no explaining that needs to be done. In our book that you think is so stupid, It doesn't say that there isn't life or even poop bacteria in space or other planets. I would be psyched if it were for real. I love finding out new things. You would do great in a deployed location, we always need someone to stir the pot of burning ****. You seem to accel at it.
Wow, you took my post completely the wrong way apparently, chill out. And yes I did skip everything, I have overlooked this thread for the last few days. All I was saying that even when life is definitively proven outside our little planet, there are a lot of people who would try everything in their power to disprove it and would illogically deny the findings.

I am aware I accel at stirring the " pot of burning ****", but that certainly wasn't an attempt. I can do much better than that. By the look of the last few posts, this thread has gotten way off topic, so no need to read the other 9 pages. I'm out.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:03 PM   #176
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Excel. Not accel.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:06 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Bingo. No individual rights should be subject to the will of the people.

How would you like it if 51% voted to outlaw aftermarket turbos?
should I have said "inalienable human rights"? Turbos are important but I dont think they should be protected for all of humanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I don't see why civil unions should be allowed without undergoing the same reasoning for state-recognized marriages. Namely, tax and legal benefits are in place because the state believed that more marriages created a more stable and productive society -- therefore, the state made it its business to provide incentives to marry.

Now, one of two things needs to happen:

(1) If we continue to assume government has the proper authority to encourage marriage on these grounds, then it must be determined if civil unions also result in a more stable and productive society.

(2) If we reject the notion that government has the proper authority to encourage or discourage marriage, then we ought to tell the state to leave our personal relationships alone. This, of course, would result in the loss of any tax and legal benefits for married couples, which many (even libertarians) are loathe to pursue.
the church respectfully disagrees that the government has any say over god-marriage. hence why #2 is the real rebuttal to disallowing homosexual unions.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:06 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I don't see why civil unions should be allowed without undergoing the same reasoning for state-recognized marriages. Namely, tax and legal benefits are in place because the state believed that more marriages created a more stable and productive society -- therefore, the state made it its business to provide incentives to marry.

Now, one of two things needs to happen:

(1) If we continue to assume government has the proper authority to encourage marriage on these grounds, then it must be determined if civil unions also result in a more stable and productive society.

(2) If we reject the notion that government has the proper authority to encourage or discourage marriage, then we ought to tell the state to leave our personal relationships alone. This, of course, would result in the loss of any tax and legal benefits for married couples, which many (even libertarians) are loathe to pursue.
Or, just call marriage "civil union" instead, and make it avalable to everyone. That way everybody can get the tax n' legal stuff they want and since it's not called marrage, theres no religious reason to keep the gays out. Everybody wins.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:07 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Excel. Not accel.
lol. I thought that looked weird, so I glanced back at his post to be sure I spelled it correctly, incorrectly. I just crawled out of my comfy bed. My brain is still asleep.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:11 PM   #180
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Or, just call marriage "civil union" instead, and make it avalable to everyone. That way everybody can get the tax n' legal stuff they want and since it's not called marrage, theres no religious reason to keep the gays out. Everybody wins.
Except that we've now lost the entire legal justification of government encouraging contractual cohabitation, and are just rewarding people regardless of whether it benefits society as a group.

I still lean toward #2. It's not the government's business to decide which relationships ought to be encouraged and discouraged, only to ensure those relationships do not infringe upon the natural rights of man.
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