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Old 02-27-2009, 07:34 PM   #121
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Section 8 housing is full of people getting money for nothing and their house for free.
I'm paying for it and you didn't notice 'cause it wasn't your money.
Yeah, I got all of that.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:35 PM   #122
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"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:39 PM   #123
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Well $700 million new dollars was directed to support abortion clinics for some reason. I don't care about the issue, but IDK how that is stimulus for the economy exactly and thought it was weird.
I looked through it and couldn't find it.

What's in the Stimulus Bill - A Breakdown - The Wall Street Journal Online


I mean hell there definately is some good stuff in there, and some pork, but its important to show that I doubt anyone disagrees it will have an effect. These are just some of the things that will personally affect everyone. (prices are in millions allotted)

Tax provisions
Individual tax cuts
One-time payment of $250 for retirees, disabled people, SSI recipients, railroad retirees and disabled veterans
$14,225
Tax provisions
Individual tax cuts
One-time refundable tax credit of $250 for some government retirees not eligible for social security benefits
$218
Aid
Individual aid

Two-year extension of program providing income support and training benefits for workers who lose their jobs because of outsourcing overseas
$1,600
Aid
Individual aid

Extension of jobless benefits for up to 33 weeks
$26,960
Aid
Individual aid

Increase in weekly unemployment benefits by $25
$8,800
Aid
Individual aid

Grants for states modernizing unemployment compensation coverage among low-wage, part-time and other workers
$2,975
Aid
Individual aid

Waiver on interest payments and accrual in interest on loans held by state unemployment trust funds
$1,100
Aid
Individual aid

Extension of unemployment compensation by 13 weeks for railroad workers
$21
Aid
Individual aid

Aid to states to administer extended benefits
$138
Aid
Individual aid

Aid to states for temporary assistance to needy families payments (TANF)
$2,418
Aid
Individual aid

Extra aid to states with high population group or increased poverty for TANF payments
$319
Aid
Individual aid

Extra funding for child support enforcement
$1,000
Aid
Individual aid

Costs of providing health coverage help to workers laid off because of outsourcing overseas
$457
Aid
Individual aid
65% subsidy for laid-off workers to continue paying premiums for former employer's health plan for nine months
$24,749
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:41 PM   #124
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Section 8 housing is full of people getting money for nothing and their house for free.
I'm paying for it and you didn't notice 'cause it wasn't your money.
Yeah, I got all of that.
This would be a scary scary scary world if you didn't give a **** about poor people. From an entirely selfish perspective, I would not want to live in the United States without social services.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:05 PM   #125
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News article for Naarleven:

Congressional Democrats' "Stimulus" Bill Includes Taxpayer Funding for Contraceptives, Abortion Industry
Boehner: "You Can Go Through a Whole Host of Issues That Have Nothing to Do with Growing Jobs in America and Helping People Keep Their Jobs"

Washington, Jan 23 - Earlier this week, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported that the massive spending plan written by congressional Democrats isn’t all it’s cracked up to be – in particular, the vast majority of the spending in the plan won’t have an impact on our economy for years, at best. And just yesterday, the House Ways & Means Committee learned that no one seems to know how many jobs would actually be created by the trillion dollar spending plan, even though the legislation is slated to be on the House floor next week.

Now comes the latest revelation about the congressional Democrats’ “stimulus” plan: it includes taxpayer funding for contraceptives and the abortion industry. Specifically, a provision in the legislation clears the way for expanded federal funding of contraceptives through Medicaid for those who aren’t even poor. Here’s how:



A Clinton-era program allows states to seek a waiver to offer Medicaid “family planning” services – even for those who are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. If they seek the waiver, the federal government matches the state funding with $9 for every $1.



Yesterday, during consideration of the congressional Democrats’ spending bill by the House Energy & Commerce Committee, the panel eliminated the waiver requirement. The result? All 50 states will now offer Medicaid “family planning” services (including contraception) with the federal government offering the same $9 to $1 match (pages 231-240).



Regardless of where anyone stands on taxpayer-funding for contraceptives and the abortion industry, there is no doubt that this once little-known provision in the congressional Democrats’ spending plan has NOTHING to do with stimulating the economy and creating more American jobs. House Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) expressed dismay at the provision allowing for taxpayer-funded contraceptive services at a press briefing after a meeting at the White House earlier today:



“I’m concerned about the size of the package and I’m concerned about some of the spending that’s in there. How you can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives – how does that stimulate the economy? You can go through a whole host of issues that have nothing to do with growing jobs in America and helping people keep their jobs.”



As the American people learn more about the congressional Democrats’ massive spending plan, the clearer it has become that the legislation is woefully insufficient in bringing our economy back to life and creating new jobs. With this revelation about the congressional Democrats’ plans to force taxpayers to subsidize contraception and the abortion industry, the American people are right to ask: just what else is in this legislation?

The initial number that was on the TV news back when I noticed was 700 million and I was trying to figure out why it would even be in there. Nancy Pelosi was on TV talking about how if there were more abortions that the states would have lower healthcare costs because there would be less kids. I thought it was creepy. Maybe when I get home and off the road I can find her clip. I was pissed because they should have been spending some of it on federal and state highway projects to generate jobs.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:09 PM   #126
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That was obviously pulled during senate negotiations, it does not exist in the final bill. Do you have the link for that? It doesn't sound as if it was written by a non-partisan organization :-D

Boehner is also trying to incite rage against congressional democrats.

p.s. heres more

Go to http://www.washingtonwatch.com/blog/...-text/#TitleIX and search (ctrl - f) and search for anything you want. I could find no mention of "family planning" or "Contraceptives" or even "waiver".

p.p.s.

Dr. Jeff Masters of Weather Underground (the weather service, not the terrorist group) had a nice blog entry up the other day about how the stimulus bill is a monumental moment in the science research funding and grant money. Honestly at this point, they're going to spend the money. Lets look at the positive sides of it. Namely the 2.2 trillion it would take to repair our infrastructure which was deemed "in poor condition" by the American Society of Social Engineers. A good chunk of the 787 billion is going towards infrastructure.

Last edited by naarleven; 02-27-2009 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:32 PM   #127
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Honestly at this point, they're going to spend the money. Lets look at the positive sides of it. Namely the 2.2 trillion it would take to repair our infrastructure which was deemed "in poor condition" by the American Society of Social Engineers. A good chunk of the 787 billion is going towards infrastructure.
Was it 2 million or 5 million going toward cricket research? I haven't checked it since it was finalized so I'm not even certain what went through.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #128
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Was it 2 million or 5 million going toward cricket research? I haven't checked it since it was finalized so I'm not even certain what went through.
When that yields a cure for cancer (or more likely a way to use them as pest control without using pesticides), I'm going to make you eat your own head.

Anyways, its not in there either.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:12 PM   #129
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Enjoy the dry political speech. Remember, you asked for it. I know nobody else on this forum cares.
This isn't the clip I saw on TV back then, but she refers to the provision being removed here.

more...

I hate c-span but this refers to the highway spending part of the bill.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:14 PM   #130
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Yay, more crickets, less New Beetles.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #131
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On the note of money going to social services as well, a great many people feel the majority of how this bill will be felt is in government jobs saved.

For instance, money pulled from property taxes has (obviously) crashed. When the state can no longer take in that money, the state has to make budget cuts. Budget cuts mean more govt jobs lost.

I will however agree with you that government is both bloated, and inefficient. Some of the points brought out by the Republicans during the debate had some real value (long term investment not as helpful as short term stimulus ect), I do admit and there definitely was partisan b.s. going into this bill, there ARE actual provisions which will help.


p.s. I love CSPAN

Vote for me, Senate 2024
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:14 PM   #132
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I will however agree with you that government is both bloated, and inefficient. Some of the points brought out by the Republicans during the debate had some real value (long term investment not as helpful as short term stimulus ect), I do admit and there definitely was partisan b.s. going into this bill, there ARE actual provisions which will help.


p.s. I love CSPAN

Vote for me, Senate 2024
Yeap. Long term **** isn't gonna stimulate anything right now. This isn't the long-term goal bill. It's a stimulus bill. I actually know a little bit about the cricket stuff you refer to because a professor of mine did some modeling on that stuff for a few years. But I can tell you that giving them money will not "stimulate" jack **** for the next 5 years, other than helping some researchers. You and I'll see no immediate benefits. That money could be put to use in a better way and have more immediate, desirable effects.

Funny, this thread's got a little of everything.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:17 PM   #133
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overnment is both bloated, and inefficient.
This is key. I read a long time ago that that ~40% of the money that's allocated to welfare and whatnot is actually paid to keep the operations going. That's quite a large amount of money that never gets to the right hands IMO.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:39 PM   #134
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This is key. I read a long time ago that that ~40% of the money that's allocated to welfare and whatnot is actually paid to keep the operations going. That's quite a large amount of money that never gets to the right hands IMO.
If you have ever donated to any large organize charitable organizations, you would be amazed at how much of it goes to over head and actually running the organization and how much actually reached the people that need it.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:57 PM   #135
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see sig, nuff said.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:53 AM   #136
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see sig, nuff said.


Inflation adjusted percentage increase in after-tax household income for the top 1% and the four quintiles, between 1979 and 2005 (gains by top 1% are reflected by bottom bar; bottom quintile by top bar)


It's easy to make it once you have it. There is a point to "progressive tax policy".




1 is perfectly unequal
0 is perfectly equal
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:11 AM   #137
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Inflation adjusted percentage increase in after-tax household income for the top 1% and the four quintiles, between 1979 and 2005 (gains by top 1% are reflected by bottom bar; bottom quintile by top bar)
DUH! The tax rate for the upper wage earners went from 78% of their income going to taxes to 32%. Of course people had significantly more after-tax money. And interestingly enough as the country went from the world of **** that it was in in 1979 to economic prosperity, people made more money. The third thing that skews the data in the graph is the fact that more people earned more money than before, thereby pushing the "who is in the 1%" figures further up the ladder. Why do you hate people who work hard and take risks and become successful? I don't lament their success, it's the American dream to be able to risk big with big ideas and make good money.

For that matter, the people you really hate aren't even on this graph. I bet you hate the blue bloods that inherited multi-millions and make even more in investments and dividends and pay no taxes. Like Thurston Howell III.

The people on the graph are wage earners. They work for somebody and pay taxes. Most of the people targeted in the elections as the over $250k earners weren't even people. Did you know that? They are sub-chapter S corporations. Small business, which are the backbone of this country, that, because of their taxation status report as individuals. When you create a subchapter S corporation, you are, in essence, creating a new person or entity, that is taxed as an individual. Many of my customers' companies are in this situation and are looking at this silly class-warfare bullshit as something that will stifle their companies' growth, cause them to make layoffs, cause them not to hire more people, cause them not to but new equipment, or cause them to shut down entirely (many are already losing money monthly due to the downturn).

Marxism has been tried multiple times around the world and failed because it crushes the spirit to further onesself, yet they continue to peddle it in school. Maybe it's because many professors are afraid of the competitive spirit of man. That is whey they teach, they don't have to compete to succeed, they just have to hang around long enough to make tenure.

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It's easy to make it once you have it. There is a point to "progressive tax policy".
Ah, yes, and it is outlined in the Communist Manifesto, the writings of Marx and Lenin, and others.

Crushing the desire to achieve does not advance America.




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Old 02-28-2009, 10:58 AM   #138
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that's funny, I work for a small company that fits the >250k model. the plan would actually improve our bottom line because of all the tax breaks given to small companies.

btw, six, you misrepresented my distaste for walmart. it wasn't about walmart. I never said "stop walmart" did I? I said "know you're spending your money at a place that turns right around and gives it to china". yet those same people are probably cursing china under their breath.

This thread has run its course for me I think. Vash has a problem with deadbeats who "can't" pay. I think we agree we dont like laziness and he really means "wont" pay. big difference.

the other thing to notice is that after signing the stimulus bill and giving his speech to the joint session, people are more confident that things will get better. In all parties.

Obama Speech Bolsters Confidence for Many Americans

and now I'm gonna go find some threads to talk about cars.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:01 PM   #139
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Vash has a problem with deadbeats who "can't" pay. I think we agree we dont like laziness and he really means "wont" pay. big difference.

the other thing to notice is that after signing the stimulus bill and giving his speech to the joint session, people are more confident that things will get better. In all parties.

Obama Speech Bolsters Confidence for Many Americans
Pretty much.

I just hate to be working 10-12 hours a day doing physically intense labor (my choice) year round and give X% to tax, insurance, etc. While there's people here that sit around and do jack **** and they get paid by the very same government I am paying in to.

Thats all I was getting at when I started this thread.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:31 PM   #140
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I can see how it'd be frustrating. btw, i saw you do foundation work. Ive been looking into building a garage on a slab-on-grade but can't figure out how to get the floor of the garage low enough to drive into without doing a course of block. do you just bring the driveway up to the floor instead? There's like a 4 or 8 inch (can't remember) requirement for height of the edge of the slab above grade. that's a tall driveway.
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