If FEMA had the bicycles, would it fund Hustler's manlet bib?
#3541
Retired Mech Design Engr
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Roubaix and Synapse both correspond to a class of bikes... comfort. Both have 4 or so frames that carry the general name.
I have owned both a Roubaix S-Works, and now a Synapse Hi-Mod; top of the range from each supplier. OK, so they are not $5K + frames, but not cheap either. I hold that Canondale Synapse Hi-Mod is a magnificant piece of engineering -- blending very well a decent ride, climbing efficiency, and decending prowess. As you mentioned above, their bikes easily go where you wnat them to. Both of mine ran Super Record.
I also concur that 25mm tires are a good thing, although rim width also enters in.
To Savington's comment: my CAAD5 has a long top tube and I use a 75mm stem with it. I don't like the feel of a long stem. It makes me feel like I'm moving the bars left and right, rather than rotating them. I think I am using a 95mm now, though with the short throw handlebars (and somewhat short Campy hoods), am contemplating adding a cm.
I have owned both a Roubaix S-Works, and now a Synapse Hi-Mod; top of the range from each supplier. OK, so they are not $5K + frames, but not cheap either. I hold that Canondale Synapse Hi-Mod is a magnificant piece of engineering -- blending very well a decent ride, climbing efficiency, and decending prowess. As you mentioned above, their bikes easily go where you wnat them to. Both of mine ran Super Record.
I also concur that 25mm tires are a good thing, although rim width also enters in.
To Savington's comment: my CAAD5 has a long top tube and I use a 75mm stem with it. I don't like the feel of a long stem. It makes me feel like I'm moving the bars left and right, rather than rotating them. I think I am using a 95mm now, though with the short throw handlebars (and somewhat short Campy hoods), am contemplating adding a cm.
#3544
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To Savington's comment: my CAAD5 has a long top tube and I use a 75mm stem with it. I don't like the feel of a long stem. It makes me feel like I'm moving the bars left and right, rather than rotating them. I think I am using a 95mm now, though with the short throw handlebars (and somewhat short Campy hoods), am contemplating adding a cm.
You shouldn't be rotating the bars, nor should it feel like you are rotating the bars. You should be pushing on the right lever to turn right and pushing on the left lever to turn left.
#3548
The CX bikes have far slacker head tubes, but the CAAD and the S3 are identical IIRC.
Same 100mm on everything. I don't have the arm/torso length or flexibility to go longer.
One of the big things I like about the S3 is the stack/reach ratio. I am not a spider-limbed pro cyclist so I like a lot of stack and a moderate amount of reach. My biggest complaint with the CAAD was that it always felt a little bit long (394mm reach), to the point where it would give me lower back pain on longer rides (50+ miles). The Stigmata is 388 with a more compact bar (70mm reach) and it feels perfect, but I don't think I can be as comfortable on a bike with 390+mm of reach. I can drop down to a 54cm CAAD12, but the headtube on that bike is so low that I'll end up with 2" of spacers under the stem to get the bars where I want them. The CAAD12s also have shorter wheelbases than the 10s did - the 54cm CAAD12 only has 980mm of wheelbase (56cm S3 is ~982mm).
The idea of something like a Synapse or a Roubaix has crossed my mind too. I know I can get the position I want on something like that.
Same 100mm on everything. I don't have the arm/torso length or flexibility to go longer.
One of the big things I like about the S3 is the stack/reach ratio. I am not a spider-limbed pro cyclist so I like a lot of stack and a moderate amount of reach. My biggest complaint with the CAAD was that it always felt a little bit long (394mm reach), to the point where it would give me lower back pain on longer rides (50+ miles). The Stigmata is 388 with a more compact bar (70mm reach) and it feels perfect, but I don't think I can be as comfortable on a bike with 390+mm of reach. I can drop down to a 54cm CAAD12, but the headtube on that bike is so low that I'll end up with 2" of spacers under the stem to get the bars where I want them. The CAAD12s also have shorter wheelbases than the 10s did - the 54cm CAAD12 only has 980mm of wheelbase (56cm S3 is ~982mm).
The idea of something like a Synapse or a Roubaix has crossed my mind too. I know I can get the position I want on something like that.
It's a bit of a mix between a 50 and 52 cm CAAD. The wheelbase is about 967 mm and the reach is about 374 mm. The overall reach from tip of saddle to CL of bars is relatively short, but it still allows for a good bit of forward rotation for a low position. I really find that this helps over the more upright position that taller headtubes usually create.
"Hydroforming triple-butted tubes minimizes weight while being able to really dial in both stiffness and comfort. Cadel Evans, BMC’s recently-retired Tour de France winner, is riding this ALR01 as his main bike, and he finds it as stiff and comfortable as the Teammachine SLR01 he raced until recently."
Yeah but still, why aluminum over CF? Durability for transportation, crashes, money? or because he's so boss that he can ride their inexpensive 105 (red) aluminum bike, with DA upgrades, and dominate just cause.
Yeah but still, why aluminum over CF? Durability for transportation, crashes, money? or because he's so boss that he can ride their inexpensive 105 (red) aluminum bike, with DA upgrades, and dominate just cause.
Philippe Gilbert raced an aluminum Canyon just a few years ago with quite a bit of success.
#3549
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54cm S3: 970mm wheelbase, 57.4mm trail
56cm S3: 982mm wheelbase, 55.5mm trail
54cm CAAD12: 980mm wheelbase, 58mm trail
56cm CAAD12: 989mm wheelbase, 56cm trail
56cm CAAD10: 993mm wheelbase, 56cm trail
Based on that, I probably wouldn't like a 56cm S3 much more.
If you look at their geometry charts, you can see how they keep the chainstay length and seattube angle constant while essentially pulling the headtube up and out. This shouldn't be happening. You can't just ignore the relationship between the front and rear end of a bicycle frame like Cervelo does.
As far as the chainstay lengths being the same, everyone does this until the bikes get huge. All the CAAD12s and the S3s are all the same (405mm) and the CAAD10 was 408mm for every size between 48 and 58.
#3551
Can you expand on this a little? Comparing the geometry of the CAAD10/12s to the S3 line, the CAADs do vary the seat tube angle, but since the position of the saddle is dictated by the bottom bracket location and not by the seat tube, the seat tube angle shouldn't matter at all (within reason).
As far as the chainstay lengths being the same, everyone does this until the bikes get huge. All the CAAD12s and the S3s are all the same (405mm) and the CAAD10 was 408mm for every size between 48 and 58.
As far as the chainstay lengths being the same, everyone does this until the bikes get huge. All the CAAD12s and the S3s are all the same (405mm) and the CAAD10 was 408mm for every size between 48 and 58.
Check out this Lennard Zinn article (scroll to the last Q & A on the page) - he does a much better job explaining it than I ever can: Technical FAQ with Lennard Zinn: Living by the rules - VeloNews.com
#3552
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I will check out that article, thanks.
#3553
Chiming in to the fit issue a bit late but two other measurements to be aware of for steering and stability. Reach of the bar bend and ctr to ctr width. I measure seat nose to fork center, to bar center and to tip of brake hood. Shorter reach and narrower bars can make steering feel more sensitive out of the saddle, everything else being equal.
I ride a Cervelo S5 but in the largest size. So I might not be exposed to the peculiarities that Andrew is experiencing. Also, I'm built like a spider monkey and flexible.
I ride a Cervelo S5 but in the largest size. So I might not be exposed to the peculiarities that Andrew is experiencing. Also, I'm built like a spider monkey and flexible.
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#3554
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They are Ergonovas, I think the same as what you have on the S5. They are 44cm C-C, about 2cm narrower on the hoods. I briefly used a set of 42cm Ergonovas on my FG and didn't feel stable on them, even on the hoods. Swapped those for 44cm and it's much better. On the hoods the S3 is fine, the issue is in the drops. I had the same bars on the CAAD10, though, so that's not it. :(
#3555
Funny that. I just put my Ergonova Team 44's from the S5 onto the cross bike and installed a new 2016 version (internal ports) Ergonova Team 42's onto the S5. My shoulders aren't that wide.
Longer reach and/or wider bars give you more leverage over the torque generated by the tire and frame/steering geometry. For me the 42s are more comfy and more aero too.
Longer reach and/or wider bars give you more leverage over the torque generated by the tire and frame/steering geometry. For me the 42s are more comfy and more aero too.
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#3557
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sav, sounds like you want a different bike.
if your fitter wanted you on an 80mm stem and you didn't ride it for at least a week you might have short changed yourself.
That said, if your using an 80mm stem on a bike like that, its probably on the optimal to longer top tube/reach than what you want. I agree a custom frame is probably the best option.
405mm rear end is pretty short, but it coincides with the short front center too. if your feeling like your front end wants to wash out on you, try moving the seat as far forward as you can on the post. It will totally jack the leg portion of the fit, but you will be able to see if it balances the feeling out (not enough weight on the front end).
On my TCR I had to play a bit. Im running the seat a bit more forward (towards the front end of the rails) and longer reach handlebars with the same 80mm stem to get my weight on the front end. when I had shorter reach handlebars and the seat placed a bit more rearward based on some computer recommendation I didn't have enough weight on the front end and it would wander all over the place.
Lastly, and I leave it for last because I assume you've tried it already, but have you tried other wheels/tires and most importantly tire pressure? I have noticed when I run the tires too high it feels darty and the steering goes all light. same with shitty tires at any pressure.
if your fitter wanted you on an 80mm stem and you didn't ride it for at least a week you might have short changed yourself.
That said, if your using an 80mm stem on a bike like that, its probably on the optimal to longer top tube/reach than what you want. I agree a custom frame is probably the best option.
405mm rear end is pretty short, but it coincides with the short front center too. if your feeling like your front end wants to wash out on you, try moving the seat as far forward as you can on the post. It will totally jack the leg portion of the fit, but you will be able to see if it balances the feeling out (not enough weight on the front end).
On my TCR I had to play a bit. Im running the seat a bit more forward (towards the front end of the rails) and longer reach handlebars with the same 80mm stem to get my weight on the front end. when I had shorter reach handlebars and the seat placed a bit more rearward based on some computer recommendation I didn't have enough weight on the front end and it would wander all over the place.
Lastly, and I leave it for last because I assume you've tried it already, but have you tried other wheels/tires and most importantly tire pressure? I have noticed when I run the tires too high it feels darty and the steering goes all light. same with shitty tires at any pressure.
#3558
Personally, my critical area is front center. I have really long femurs and relatively short arms/torso. So my knees hit the stem out of the saddle unless I have a certain (long) TT length. From there I can fudge the rest by sliding the seat fore/aft, stem length and bar reach.
Short answer: Experience. After getting one drop bar bike right, you should be able to duplicate it with the standard geometry chart mfr's provide.
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#3559
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405mm rear end is pretty short, but it coincides with the short front center too.
Lastly, and I leave it for last because I assume you've tried it already, but have you tried other wheels/tires and most importantly tire pressure? I have noticed when I run the tires too high it feels darty and the steering goes all light. same with shitty tires at any pressure.
#3560
Tour de Franzia
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Once you know what works for you, measure everything, all points of contact relative to other points of contact, ground plane, bb and axles. You can then overlay your measurements onto any new frame build and get your position and weight distribution right. For the road, weight distribution matters but I can fudge it a cm here or there. For CX though, it has to be spot on to maximize low speed grip and balance.
Personally, my critical area is front center. I have really long femurs and relatively short arms/torso. So my knees hit the stem out of the saddle unless I have a certain (long) TT length. From there I can fudge the rest by sliding the seat fore/aft, stem length and bar reach.
Short answer: Experience. After getting one drop bar bike right, you should be able to duplicate it with the standard geometry chart mfr's provide.
Personally, my critical area is front center. I have really long femurs and relatively short arms/torso. So my knees hit the stem out of the saddle unless I have a certain (long) TT length. From there I can fudge the rest by sliding the seat fore/aft, stem length and bar reach.
Short answer: Experience. After getting one drop bar bike right, you should be able to duplicate it with the standard geometry chart mfr's provide.
I'm bored at work and not road bike shopping, but curious on how little I know:
I've ridden a 54cm Venge and felt like it was a sketch-bomb, didn't want to go straight, had to pick the bike-up out of corners, swerved left-right when out of the saddle, felt like I was riding on top of the bike rather than in it. Ride over rough stuff had a ring to it, but tolerable.
I rode a Propel in a small (medium felt gigantic with it's huge top-tube) and it felt like I had to deliberately turn the bars and when I had the bike leaned-in, bumps would steer the bike. It also felt like I was riding a big, hollow, plastic box.
54cm Trek Emonda did just about everything right but was way too upright, made me want to eat cheeseburgers (plural) so I could fatten up and pay $300 for a "fondo".
Then, back to my Evo, which I expect to feel right because it's my bike, turns by thought rather than action, "comes back to you" when you relax your body mid corner, goes straight all the time, has a lower frequency resonance over corners.
So, with all that **** I said above, does that mean those other bikes are "not the bike for me" or something I would adapt to? There is one fatal flaw with my bike and it's the lack of metal rear drop outs. The only thing I'd change about this bike.