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Old 01-19-2007, 02:11 PM   #1
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Default "new" FM II in person, why I say BEGI is better

So I got to see a new FM II kit the other day when I was having some work done on my car (headlight clip is toast). Well LOL at FM if they think those hoses will not expand. I squeezed them and my O'reillys silicon hoses on my old Greddy turboed miata felt stiffer. Those things are soft and squirmy. You can tell how/why they dropped the price by looking at the hoses, and the i/c was nothing to write home about. Not bad for a DIY kit but I would expect more at that price.

Now the new BEGI kit i have seen in person is way better in terms of pipes and I/C construction.


The New FMII manifold looks very diff from the old one but i cant tell if it flows better or now. time will tell.

my $.02
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:31 PM   #2
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the all silicon IC piping is absolutely retarded. I don't know wtf they were thinking, but that's going to hurt their sales. This is what happens when you pull Bell out of the situation and leave FM to their old school, poorly engineered ways.
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:51 PM   #3
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Well count me solidly in the Bell camp, and not for personal reasons. From an engineering standpoint Bell does it better. Bell could stand to learn some mass production techniques but that would also take away from the craftsmanship that is so much a hallmark of what they do.

I have not seen the new FM kit up close and personal yet, but I still have an immense amount of faith in BEGi, their business practices, and the people behind the company.

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Old 01-19-2007, 02:55 PM   #4
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the all silicon IC piping is absolutely retarded. I don't know wtf they were thinking, but that's going to hurt their sales. This is what happens when you pull Bell out of the situation and leave FM to their old school, poorly engineered ways.
The sad truth is that they are selling faster than they can make them.

FM will always have their followers no matter what they sell or how poor quality a product is compared to what other companys have to offer.

These people will buy anything FM tells them,if FM told them they have used toilet paper for sale that will make their car run better these people will buy it.
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:57 PM   #5
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Corky is a great guy. When I go to do my next project, I am going to talk with him and get him involved. When this motor lets go, I am going to try and do an 18g project and see where that takes me, if not that, then a big 16g. Count me into the begi camp.
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:06 PM   #6
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The silicon pipes aren't there for performance. They're there to simplify installation and raise margins. Reduce freight costs too. It's obvious that FM farms out production and merely "assembles" and supports the kits. FM has done an excellent job in marketing their brand, and as long as they keep up the same level of support, they will continue to be the leader in the miata fi scene.

When it comes to simplicity, the FM system is hands down an easier installation. The voodoo box requires no tuning, unlike an FMU. And the FM kit comes with fewer pieces to install.
When it comes to superiority, the BEGi kit is IMO better engineered in regards to performance:$$, and is overall a better deal for the informed consumer.
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:47 PM   #7
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I'm glad I got my kit pre-begi split, but I don't think FM is really doing all that bad. Just by reading some threads on m.net it seems like people are ordering the voodoo kits more than ever now. Its obviously because of the fairly low price and honestly thats the way to sell a lot of kits.

The good thing is IMO, that any of the base kits are good starting points for a pseudo-DIY kit.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:02 PM   #8
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It's pretty obvious from where I sit that BEGI and FM are very different companies that are going to appeal to different aspects of the market. Even though they are both bringing the same product to market they are very different in execution.

Comparing both products based on things that haven't been proven is pointless. Have both setups (similar "stages") been on the same dyno back to back? If not it's pretty hard to say who offers the best value. If I had to guess it would by FM. Comparing the quality of components is valid to a point, but since things like the molded I/C pipes haven't been on the road for very long it's pretty tought to say from a durability stand point that they are better or worse than hard pipes.

The BEGI setup looks like a custom made one off with a lot of attention paid to detal and in my opinion OVER engineering.

The FM setup looks more mass produced and dare I say OEM. You can see there are some design ideas that were made with an thought to cost cutting.

Although I find it damned ironic that THIS group of people will condemn FM for using a Chinese I/C to save a buck and make they product cheaper and margains wider Why spend $500 when spending $100 will get you 90-95% of the performance?

Although I think getting suspension advice from FM is dubious at best. I think they sell and promote what they have a good margain on, not what is the best. They certainly wouldn't sell Tokicko shocks over Konis if that was the case.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:44 PM   #9
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Can't believe people are making a big deal about the silicone charge hoses. They're not going to balloon under pressure. I'm sure many of you have silicone hoses to connect your metal pipes. I've seen Lingenfelter twin-turbo 'Vette kits use all silicone tubing, and it worked fine for ~800+hp. That silicone is rated for like 80psi or something before deformation.

Just because you can squeeze it with your hands, it doesn't mean it'll deform under 12psi of air.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:04 PM   #10
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Yup rubber radiator hoses can handle plenty of pressure.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Can't believe people are making a big deal about the silicone charge hoses. They're not going to balloon under pressure. I'm sure many of you have silicone hoses to connect your metal pipes. I've seen Lingenfelter twin-turbo 'Vette kits use all silicone tubing, and it worked fine for ~800+hp. That silicone is rated for like 80psi or something before deformation.

Just because you can squeeze it with your hands, it doesn't mean it'll deform under 12psi of air.
80psi before "deformation" is unrealistic... they will deform at much less just not as noticably. Keep in mind the 80psi rating is also at X temperature, which is going to be drastically lower than the underhood temps.

FM had better be careful though... if they sell too many of their kits they'll have to hire more people to support them. That increases their costs and either lowers margins or increases the cost to consumers. It's a nasty circle that could lead to their downfall if not managed very carefully.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:19 PM   #12
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Corky/Stephaine needs to call me to redo the website and do a better job Marketing/Advertising the products. I work for boost.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:43 PM   #13
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80psi before "deformation" is unrealistic... they will deform at much less just not as noticably. Keep in mind the 80psi rating is also at X temperature, which is going to be drastically lower than the underhood temps.
That's the beauty of silicone, though: it's much more resilient to high-temps and more likely to maintain normal material characteristics across it's operating temp range.
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Old 01-19-2007, 06:12 PM   #14
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Bashing the cost engineering practices in effect over at FM seems to be counter productive, the only thing insulting about it is selling it for $495 to end customers as the Miataspeed upgrade... talk about a markup!!!

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...umber=22-35000

As seen here, how much sense is there in paying $495 for a $100 intercooler. Not bashing the intercooler, just the pricing of it.

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Old 01-19-2007, 06:34 PM   #15
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Talk about markup, why does FM charge $140 for a pair of Mazdaspeed diff mounts when corksports sells them for $100?
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:25 PM   #16
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I wish begi weren't in Texas, so I didn't have to pay tax. I'm seriously thinking about ordering their manifold, downpipe, and oil/waster distribution blocks.
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:53 PM   #17
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you think tax is less than shipping?
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I wish begi weren't in Texas, so I didn't have to pay tax. I'm seriously thinking about ordering their manifold, downpipe, and oil/waster distribution blocks.
once we get situated in the new house and I have a back up vehicle I'll be calling Begi to get a "custom" kit sorted out... basically I want the manifold, downpipe, and oil/coolant lines. The rest I'll do myself. Probably be May or so.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:05 PM   #19
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The sad truth is that they are selling faster than they can make them.

FM will always have their followers no matter what they sell or how poor quality a product is compared to what other companys have to offer.

These people will buy anything FM tells them,if FM told them they have used toilet paper for sale that will make their car run better these people will buy it.
marketing. Between the pimping they do on .net and the "well it costs more so it's better" mentality they'll always sell kits.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
Talk about markup, why does FM charge $140 for a pair of Mazdaspeed diff mounts when corksports sells them for $100?
With the extra $40 dollars you pay,you get there top notch customer service ,years of knowledge in miatas and last but not least you can say you bought it at FM.
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