"new" FM II in person, why I say BEGI is better - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-23-2007, 02:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Absolutely. There are a lot of people who don't know **** making wild claims about both setups.
Guess I dont know @#$%.

Have you seen the parts layed out in person?
Have you actually seen one installed in person?
Have you touched the components to compare them to the reinforced silicon used by APS and other subaru and Mitsu manufacturers?
Have you touched them and compared them to o'reillys "disel truck" reinforced silicon?

I have, and to the feel the are quite a bit more flimsy. How much will they expand I do not know as I have yet to see them on a dyno. All I know is i have seen thicker parts expand on the dyno, although they were on larger motors with turbos that pushed more cfm's that what FM is using

I not a FM or BEGI fan boy. I waited till I actually saw the components before I said anything. Am I saying that for the price it is not worth it, no not all all just that after seeing it I know whom (not that i doubted it before) I would say has better construction (to my taste). Not saying that I did not have my own "ghetto" fab parts on my old car.
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Old 01-23-2007, 02:54 PM   #42
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My point is that even though it might not look well engineered it could still perform very well. It might look well engineered but might not perform worth crap. Until the kits have been around for a while and some back to back testing has been done making any claims about how much better one is than the other is purely speculation and opinion. Which you are entiltled to.

And for the record I have seen neither setup in person. That's why at this point I will wait to form my opinion until further data is avalible. Even if I had, would it matter or have any bearing on the ultimate performance of either setup?

A lot of controversy is surrounding the silicone pipes FM is using. I wish they would do a back to back dyno with the squishy pipes and hardpipes and put this to rest.

Same thing goes with BEGI's divorced waste gate DP. Is it actually better than a bell mouth style DP? Unless I missed it I have seen any data to say either way. But a lot of people through that around as a good thing as well. Same goes for the Xede vs Link. Is one better than the other? What criteria? The Xede could very well be better and cheaper than the Link.

Perhaps I used words a little to strong in my other post, I wasn't meaning to offend anyone.

I just re-read this and I'm coming off as an FM fanboy, I'm not honest. Maybe I just like to play devil's advocate a little too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlab77 View Post
Guess I dont know @#$%.

Have you seen the parts layed out in person?
Have you actually seen one installed in person?
Have you touched the components to compare them to the reinforced silicon used by APS and other subaru and Mitsu manufacturers?
Have you touched them and compared them to o'reillys "disel truck" reinforced silicon?

I have, and to the feel the are quite a bit more flimsy. How much will they expand I do not know as I have yet to see them on a dyno. All I know is i have seen thicker parts expand on the dyno, although they were on larger motors with turbos that pushed more cfm's that what FM is using

I not a FM or BEGI fan boy. I waited till I actually saw the components before I said anything. Am I saying that for the price it is not worth it, no not all all just that after seeing it I know whom (not that i doubted it before) I would say has better construction (to my taste). Not saying that I did not have my own "ghetto" fab parts on my old car.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #43
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FM came into my house and disrespected my famiry.
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:27 PM   #44
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btw, if you put the waste gate pressure hose after the squishy intercooler pipes, this whole thread is mute.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:18 PM   #45
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Huh? And what does not having any sound/not being able to speak have anything to do with this?
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:32 PM   #46
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I'd say this thread is anything but mute.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
You'll make Markp very happy if you prove the the FM dyno is padding the numbers. Make sure he's there in person.
For the record I dont think they are padding the numbers. Different dynos read differently, that's all. 250 RWHP on one dyno will not be 250 RWHP on another... although you would think that it should be!

Mark
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:39 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I'd say this thread is anything but mute.
****! I always do that ****. Moot > mute

god, I always made fun of people who did that ****, and of course now its me. I'm showing my *** alot lately.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:43 PM   #49
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Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it.


Frank
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it.


Frank
"1 good test is worth 1000 expert opinions" If I was told that they did indeed do this test I would withdraw my previous arguements.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:55 PM   #51
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Frank said:

"Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it."

Then Arkmage said:

"If I was told that they did indeed do this test I would withdraw my previous arguements."

So I picked up the phone and called FM. The hoses are silicone to withstand temps of over 900 degrees F and they are kevlar reinforced to withstand high pressure. Bill spec'd them out with their supplier and he's out sick today so I couldn't get the actual pressure spec. However, look at the Samco link in this thread above and you can see that a 70mm hose of theirs is built to stand pressure of about 132 psi. That hose would blow off the car before it blew up. I want to see the turbo that puts out 9 bar on a Miata.

Look, do you really think FM would go to all the trouble of developing a new system and overlook something that basic? They've only been at this for over 16 years. So some FM hater says "lookee, I can squeeze these tubes so I don't *think* they'll work". Some of you guys are so intent on bashing FM for any reason that you can't allow that there might be a possibility that they did something right.

I await your well-reasoned, FM-bashing response.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:18 PM   #52
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Wow that's quite the first post. Who are you on miata.net? NOT saying I don't agree though.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:41 PM   #53
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We don't typically outright bash FM here. Just in-depth analysis on this new kit. I'm sure 90% of the member here has bought something and had good experience with FM. If this had been any other company putting out this kit the same "bash" would exisit.

People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:58 PM   #54
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I'm cwisenheimer everywhere. I haven't posted here but I've read more than a few posts, enough to see that "we don't outright bash FM" is a dubious claim. For instance, all I did was pick up the phone and actually call FM to ask about the supposedly flimsy hoses. That's much more direct and productive than voicing an opinion that a product is doomed to failure based on the assumption that flexible hose cannot be strong (which is a false assumption). For another instance, look at the first post in this thread or look at the topic line of this thread. Maybe I haven't read enough posts to see other suppliers bashed as much or based on such flimsy logic. Could be. If so, that's not really such a good thing either.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:49 PM   #55
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cwisenheimer if you don't like the topics on this forum and the typical "forum critics & FM bashers" you can leave!!! if not then we will just make fun of you just like the recent newbie.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:00 PM   #56
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what about the way silicone pipes insulate instead of radiate heat, like metal ones do?
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
cwisenheimer if you don't like the topics on this forum and the typical "forum critics & FM bashers" you can leave!!! if not then we will just make fun of you just like the recent newbie.
Well there's a mature response too.

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Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
what about the way silicone pipes insulate instead of radiate heat, like metal ones do?
The pipes carry the heated charge to the intercooler which is much more efficient at shedding the heat than a metal pipe (one or two orders of magnitude, I would guess). There would be more difference in systems if one had an efficient intercooler and one had a less efficient intercooler than if systems with identical intercoolers had different pipes. In addition, the pipe from the intercooler to the intake is also insulated and won't absorb engine heat as a metal pipe would. This is a smaller consideration yet, I'll grant you, but it's about as big a claim as the other is a concern.

Either way, the real answer to all this is "dynoed rwhp/$" and "long-term reliability". Neither answer is yet available from an independent source for BEGI or FM so there is no valid reason to claim either one is definitively better, only opinions.
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:23 PM   #58
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Dude...are you like my doppleganger?

I think I gave that same response to an FM bash-fest on here a couple months ago when the FM kits came out.

Again, for the record, I still like BEGi's kit better, but it's mainly because of the manifold, downpipe and intercooler.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwisenheimer View Post
Well there's a mature response too.
thank you,now and go back to m.net.
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:23 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
We don't typically outright bash FM here. Just in-depth analysis on this new kit. I'm sure 90% of the member here has bought something and had good experience with FM. If this had been any other company putting out this kit the same "bash" would exisit.

People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
Did you type that with a straight face? FM is certainly a favorite target around here, I've take my fair share of shots as have a lot of the regulars.

If anyone wants to give FM a hard time let's talk about the love of purple, what the **** is that all about?
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