"new" FM II in person, why I say BEGI is better - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-24-2007, 11:40 PM   #61
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****! I always do that ****. Moot > mute

god, I always made fun of people who did that ****, and of course now its me. I'm showing my *** alot lately.
off topic, but I have a friend who always says "moo point". I asked him to explain what that meant, and he responded with "a moo point is a cow's opinion and who cares what a cow thinks."
One of these days, I'll correct him, but not yet. It's still funny to me.
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:43 PM   #62
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If he actually said that he stole that from an episode of friends. I think he's yanking your chain
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:48 PM   #63
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oh, well he says that, and with a serious face. could be a coincidence, or the joke could be on me.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:21 AM   #64
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Well I'm not saying we bash FM as a whole. We are seriously arguing silicone pipes right now and the fact that FM uses them now.

We mostly just associate them with M.net and bandwagon over there and take our jabs. I've taken a few jabs at them, as well as BEGi.

A FM bash might come up 1 out of every 100 posts or so. So what?

Wisenhimer: Go search VF Superchargers on M.net, see how the m.net members treated the owner of the company and how he plain just stopped posting, it happens there too. If we don't pick apart companies or debate products to a certain extent then we won't have a slue of product lines like we do. (yes we don't hold back here one bit, welcome to the first admendment)

99% of the time this is a peaceful forum where we all work together to help each other out. I've meet up with plenty of members, loaned out tools, installed kits, shared horror stories, given advice, wrote a FAQ, etc.

New members show up here daily in the middle of heated debates or mouth off and leave with a nasty taste in their mouths for no apparent reason, like yourself. You drop in your .02$ in a discussion about silicone intercooler tubes, you can see people are still fifty-fifty on the things, so now we are all immature FM bashers cause you called FM yourself and asked the pressure ratings.
It's fine that you did. But what the hell is the point of coming here and being so freaking pompous about it and starting out on the wrong foot?

If you need help or want to discuss things then do it. So what if members do bash FM or not?! I love my FM springs, but I don't cry about it when people bash FM. We bash M.net for sure and other things. No doubt about it. I post there everyday. REV2RED is my name there. I give worth while information daily. I also post on clubroadster.net. I don't agree with 80% of the stuff those guys do. Do I care? No. do they bash things? Yes. Who cares?

Ultimately it comes down to one thing; you had an agenda to post here. Not to be resourceful or chip in, but to douche around.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:23 AM   #65
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The pipes carry the heated charge to the intercooler which is much more efficient at shedding the heat than a metal pipe (one or two orders of magnitude, I would guess). There would be more difference in systems if one had an efficient intercooler and one had a less efficient intercooler than if systems with identical intercoolers had different pipes. In addition, the pipe from the intercooler to the intake is also insulated and won't absorb engine heat as a metal pipe would. This is a smaller consideration yet, I'll grant you, but it's about as big a claim as the other is a concern.
A metal pipe will shed over 20 degrees F. You cannot tell me that is not worthwhile..... The miata has enough heat issues without adding to it. The silicone tubes will not give off that heat.

Now, an insulated tube from the IC to TBI is a good idea. However, the amount of heat picked up by a metal pipe is minimal. About 2 to 4 degrees F.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:32 AM   #66
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Stephanie is a FM basher :gay:
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:35 AM   #67
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I take the high road, remember?!?!
Besides, I paid them a compliment. If you like that look.
Stephanie
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by cwisenheimer View Post
Frank said:

"Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it."

Then Arkmage said:

"If I was told that they did indeed do this test I would withdraw my previous arguements."

So I picked up the phone and called FM. The hoses are silicone to withstand temps of over 900 degrees F and they are kevlar reinforced to withstand high pressure. Bill spec'd them out with their supplier and he's out sick today so I couldn't get the actual pressure spec. However, look at the Samco link in this thread above and you can see that a 70mm hose of theirs is built to stand pressure of about 132 psi. That hose would blow off the car before it blew up. I want to see the turbo that puts out 9 bar on a Miata.

Look, do you really think FM would go to all the trouble of developing a new system and overlook something that basic? They've only been at this for over 16 years. So some FM hater says "lookee, I can squeeze these tubes so I don't *think* they'll work". Some of you guys are so intent on bashing FM for any reason that you can't allow that there might be a possibility that they did something right.

I await your well-reasoned, FM-bashing response.
will you and everyone else get of FM fanboy. Read my fricking postI said the engineering of BEGI looks better to my taste. And to show your how stupid you are for ASSuming I don't like FM. I use to have a FM link and even have Jeremy on my AOL buddy list. And I was astounded at how Jeremy would call me out of the blue every time he though of something to try and fix some data logs I had sent him.

I dont even know nor have ever had any contact with anyone at BEGI.

But I do know how rigid my friends APS and SAMCO hoses feel, and how thick and rigid the O'reillys silicone pipes were on my 92. And I can judge how flimsy these pipes feel compared to those. I never said "they dont work FM sucks" I said that the construction (to me) does not seem as topnotch as BEGI and for 200 dollars more I'd rather get the base I/C BEGI than the Voodoo II
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:18 AM   #69
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the compressor outlet pipe shedding 20deg will reduce the intercooler efficiency too... but who cares. rubber hose or steel pipe the only number that matters is the temperature of the air in the manifold.

and for what it's worth, this forum generally gives FM a hard time and kisses BEGi feet and you all know it.

I've had beers with the FM guys and I like them. When/if I get the chance I'm sure I'd say the same about BEGi.

Products-wise we should all be on this forum to say we dont like what either company offers--we like to do it ourselves. I'm going to keep spending money at both shops and other shops and do it myself.

etc etc etc. as you all say: :gay:
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:54 AM   #70
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Brain, if I were your lawyer, I would tell you to go back and adjust the figures in your post to: 1 out of every 30 posts [is an FM bash] and ~79% of the time [this is a "peaceful" forum].

Thank you. That is all.

Oh, and I would also tell you to add "Guns don't kill people. People kill people" to your signature. It's just good karma.
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:22 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
the compressor outlet pipe shedding 20deg will reduce the intercooler efficiency too... but who cares. rubber hose or steel pipe the only number that matters is the temperature of the air in the manifold.
So, are you saying that air leaving an IC will always be the same temp? Cause a 20* drop before entering the IC means a lower temp comming back out.
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:34 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Brain, if I were your lawyer, I would tell you to go back and adjust the figures in your post to: 1 out of every 30 posts [is an FM bash] and ~79% of the time [this is a "peaceful" forum].

Thank you. That is all.

Oh, and I would also tell you to add "Guns don't kill people. People kill people" to your signature. It's just good karma.

get off my internetz.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:01 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
So, are you saying that air leaving an IC will always be the same temp? Cause a 20* drop before entering the IC means a lower temp comming back out.
Only if the IC is maxed out.

Pitlab77,
My only issue is you equated flexibility in a hose with quality. If the pipe were to withstand vacuum and not boost, this would be a concern.

FWIW, my y-pipe in my suby is easily compressible.


Braineack,
The ratio of FM bashing to BEGI bashing here is like 100 to 1 (or zero maybe).

FWIW, I waited 8 months (maybe a bit of an exageration, but it was a looong time) to get my FMII kit (one of the first produced) back when I had my '90 because BEGI sucked at supplying FM.

Frank
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:56 AM   #74
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Only if the IC is maxed out.
:sigh: heat transfer theory is obviously lost on some people.

The temperature drop across the IC would be reduced but the overall exit temperature is still going to be lower, provided that the air charge temp is still above ambient. Don't make me pull my textbooks out on your ***.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:51 PM   #75
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textbooks wont give you real world data though--thats what we're all after. if you put a probe at the turbo outlet, IC inlet, and IC outlet, you'll know for sure.

if you use a metal IC inlet pipe, you might be able to run a smaller IC.

what I said was not that it reduces the outlet temp, but it reduces the efficiency of the IC. lower delta T = lower efficiency.

but then you could argue that if you're shedding heat on that pipe, why aren't you using another little IC up there? or why isn't the pipe finned or something?

My guess is it's because of the lack of airflow in the engine bay.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:56 PM   #76
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I think he is saying that the heat radiated out of the hot side charge pipe would reduce the i/c efficiency in the regard that there would be less of a difference in Tin-Tout. It would also be interesting to explore how this affects radiator efficiency, as the "pass through" air would be at a comparatively low temperature.

<edit>y8s beat me to it, but that was indeed what he was saying. the reason why the hot side pipe isn't finned is extra mass/cost/complexity. even without airflow, heat would more effectively transfer from the charge-->pipe-->under hood air if the charge pipe has more surface area. Think of how older houses and apartment buildings are heated.

Last edited by Ben; 01-25-2007 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:06 PM   #77
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this forum generally gives FM a hard time and kisses BEGi feet and you all know it.
I don't see Bill,Keith or Jeremy posting on here.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:15 PM   #78
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I don't see Bill,Keith or Jeremy posting on here.
i think they have their hands full with the m.netters.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
:sigh: heat transfer theory is obviously lost on some people.

The temperature drop across the IC would be reduced but the overall exit temperature is still going to be lower, provided that the air charge temp is still above ambient. Don't make me pull my textbooks out on your ***.
Since the cooling effects IC piping greatly increase performance (apparently) why doesn't BEGI use copper piping? It's readily available, more thermoconductive than SS and probably cheaper.

Take your pick:
1) cool your pre-IC charge with heat radiating IC piping
2) pre-heat the air going into your turbo with heat radiating IC piping.

This is all a moot point because I bet you see less than 5 whp difference between the two if you swapped piping on the same car and did back to back pulls all else being equal.

Frank
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:24 PM   #80
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i think they have their hands full with the m.netters.
It's more like not enough money in their hands to benefit from on this forum.
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