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Old 10-30-2008, 02:27 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post

I'm saying if someone gets themselves in a financial burden by CHOICE, then I don't think I should have to pay for it. Is that clear? That's really all I'm saying. They are the ones in control of their lives. No one else. They make their own choices for themselves and deal with them. I don't tell them what to do, I don't tell them how to do it, I don't ask them to pay me for anything, and I don't pay them for anything. That simple.
I guess this comes down to what you believe is really your choice and how in control of your own life you are. You could argue that your education and your parent's education , whether or not they're a drug user, the schools, schoolboard, property taxes that fund that school, etc. are heavily influencing what happens in your developmental years. If a lot of those things are negatives, which is not your fault as a child/adolescent you've got the deck stacked against you. Maybe if more of those things had been positive influences you would've strapped on a rubber and not had 3 kids by the time your 21. My point is, to claim that not living the American dream is no fault but your own is ignoring a host of social and economic factors that effect peoples lives. Some of them are of course just bad luck but some of those things are institutional and don't have to be that way.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:34 AM   #102
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If you fucked up and thought you needed 3 kids when you were 21 and now you got a family to take care of and can't do anything to better yourself, well, that's your problem. People make choices. Others shouldn't have to pay for your choices.
Exhibit 1, prego Bristol Palin:




Just sayin'. If McCain wins, our taxpayer money will be paying for that little bastard Palin.

To keep this thread on topic, maybe Bristol should have done this:



to this (Satanic Palin fetus pumpkin):




Frank
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:15 PM   #103
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I can't believe how short sighted people are ... well maybe I can with the current economic situation.

Here is an example. Crack ***** goes out and gets pregnant, ends up giving birth to the child and attempts to raise it. With out any kind of social assistance programs she continues to ***** herself out in turn neglecting and abusing the child. Kid grows up having horrible things done to it, ends up turning to drugs and a life of crime to support the habit. The cycle continues and gets worse and worse. Generations of people live this life and are a total burden on society. Uneducated, unhealthy and criminals. Not only do they not contribute to society they take away. It's a classic thing we see everyday. You have to look beyond the immediate problem (the crack *****) and see the collateral damage. Is it fair that a child is born into this type of situation? Should we force children to pay for the mistakes of their parents, or should society take on that burden?

Programs funded with tax dollars could help stop this cycle. It would directly reduce crime and in the long run cost society less than not doing anything. This is no different than tax funded police, or the government becoming involved in environmental issues.

It would be nice if our governments were accountable for all of the tax dollars spent. I think that would be a massive eye open for people, and would radically change the way people think about their government.

And to keep the thread on target, I carved a pumpkin last night. Just a regular pumpkin with out any political flavor.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:25 PM   #104
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Just sayin'. If McCain wins, our taxpayer money will be paying for that little bastard Palin.
Yeah, you're right. I would much rather have my tax dollars paying for this hoes $1000 lunches.

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Old 10-30-2008, 02:51 PM   #105
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Let me just say I love how left leaning or liberal people get their panties in a bunch over a pumkin! Holy crap you people are over sensitive. Lighten up a little. The pumpkin is funny and well executed. If it had been some exageration of McCains policies you would have laughed your butt off. Geez. Get in your Prius and feel good about yourselves again.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:59 PM   #106
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Let me just say I love how left leaning or liberal people get their panties in a bunch over a pumkin! Holy crap you people are over sensitive. Lighten up a little. The pumpkin is funny and well executed. If it had been some exageration of McCains policies you would have laughed your butt off. Geez. Get in your Prius and feel good about yourselves again.
Or somebody in LA hanging (like in a noose hanging) a Palin manikin from their roof as "halloween artwork" that was hilarious to the left wing **** living in the house, yet I bet they are the type offended by Koto's pumpkin.
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:34 PM   #107
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them pumpkins are pretty bad ***...i'd be lucky to make a decent looking stick figure in one of them!
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:25 PM   #108
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Social assistance programs here in the US are plentiful and easy to qualify. They are also a huge burden on our tax dollars. The majority of my patients are on gov't assistance and guess what...they don't want to get off of it either b/c Medi-cal pays way more and covers more tx than any private insurance would.

I'm guessing you don't have too much exposure to this over in Canada.

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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I can't believe how short sighted people are ... well maybe I can with the current economic situation.

Here is an example. Crack ***** goes out and gets pregnant, ends up giving birth to the child and attempts to raise it. With out any kind of social assistance programs she continues to ***** herself out in turn neglecting and abusing the child. Kid grows up having horrible things done to it, ends up turning to drugs and a life of crime to support the habit. The cycle continues and gets worse and worse. Generations of people live this life and are a total burden on society. Uneducated, unhealthy and criminals. Not only do they not contribute to society they take away. It's a classic thing we see everyday. You have to look beyond the immediate problem (the crack *****) and see the collateral damage. Is it fair that a child is born into this type of situation? Should we force children to pay for the mistakes of their parents, or should society take on that burden?

Programs funded with tax dollars could help stop this cycle. It would directly reduce crime and in the long run cost society less than not doing anything. This is no different than tax funded police, or the government becoming involved in environmental issues.

It would be nice if our governments were accountable for all of the tax dollars spent. I think that would be a massive eye open for people, and would radically change the way people think about their government.

And to keep the thread on target, I carved a pumpkin last night. Just a regular pumpkin with out any political flavor.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:40 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Let me just say I love how left leaning or liberal people get their panties in a bunch over a pumkin! Holy crap you people are over sensitive. Lighten up a little. The pumpkin is funny and well executed. If it had been some exageration of McCains policies you would have laughed your butt off. Geez. Get in your Prius and feel good about yourselves again.
Oversensitive... not so much. I seem to recall a couple of skinheads with a plot to kill 102 black people recently. You think they're the only ones? You think the hordes of McCain-Palin supporters who yell **** at rallies are just doing it because it's funny? I dont take hatemongering and brainwashing very lightly.

....

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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
Or somebody in LA hanging (like in a noose hanging) a Palin manikin from their roof as "halloween artwork" that was hilarious to the left wing **** living in the house, yet I bet they are the type offended by Koto's pumpkin.
How many "Obama's in Nooses" you think there are? You do know that "lynching" is a racist thing, right? a white woman hanging by a noose is very different than a black man hanging from a noose.

And "left wing ****"? I guess you hadn't heard about the gay rights bill in california. but you're probably a raging homophobe so it doesn't matter.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:57 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I'll agree to a flat tax when you agree to price ALL COST OF LIVING ITEMS proportionally to income.

Then I can buy a $5 cheeseburger.
A poor guy can buy a 50 cent cheeseburger.
And the rich bastards can eat $500 dollar cheeseburgers.



do you pay federal taxes on cost of living items? I believe you need to take that up with your state. In fact I hate paying the extra city tax where we live, I'm still not used to that.

All three in this scenario will be paying the same amount of tax on each cheeseburger regardless of income, assuming they all live in the same state.


So say a Janitor made 15k a year is taxed at 10%. $1500 of that went to Washington.

and say I made 50K at 30%. $15,000 went to Washington. What would be fair is if I only had to pay 3% taxes and only pay $1500 as well. The Government could very well continue to operate this way.

Say I make 249K at 40%. That's $99,600 that goes straight to Washington. If I make 251K at 50%, that's 125,500 or grand total of $23,900 less than I would have made if I was paid only 2k less a year.

If I made 249K and was taxed at only 10% (over 40%), I'd make pretty good use of that extra $74K; probably go straight back into the economy. Maybe hire some illegal Mexicans to come build me a media room in my basment.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:01 PM   #111
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The problem with "supporters" at rallies is I've been to rallies. Not lately but back in the day. I went to college by the U of O in Eugene OR. One of the hotbeds of liberal extremism. People who are at rallies often aren't there to support anything. They are there to make or watch a show.

People will support either side in those situations. They will make asses of themselves because it's fun. Not because they believe in what they are saying or doing. It's a kick to be over the top and get the attention of the many news crews there. Maybe they were serious, maybe they weren't. I wasn't there and don't know any of them personally to judge.

I don't know if the people yelling crap are trying to be funny or not. In my experience they are generally drunk and getting worked up because it's fun.

Hanging any candidate in effigy is wrong. So are threats against them. There is a line of what is funny and what is potentially illegal. Pumpkin is Funny. Hang a manikin, not funny.

Liberal or conservative there are haters willing to be violent at either end of the spectrum. Any extremist is scary. Political, religious, etc.

Last edited by cueball1; 10-30-2008 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:04 PM   #112
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I'm a miata extremist, i think it's pretty cool.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:18 PM   #113
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I'm a miata extremist, i think it's pretty cool.
I'd make a rude comment about civic drivers but my gf owns a civic and I drive it a lot.

ummm...

Lamborghini drivers can eat a dingleberry!

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Old 10-30-2008, 07:47 PM   #114
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:52 PM   #115
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THAT'S ******* BRILLIANT!!!

In other news, I was told today to take down the pumpkin by my neighborhood. If it was civilian housing I'd tell them to go play in traffic, but it's military housing so if I refuse they'll make things difficult for me. I might try something like posted above..
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:53 PM   #116
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that is pretty awesome.
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:59 PM   #117
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******* sweet!

This thread is an interesting read. Sure makes me want to ******* choke some people though......

Vash-
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:06 PM   #118
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Between this forum, another one, and my ten year old brother, I had to do my own pumpkin today, thought I would share....



My drunk, puking, pumpkin with functioning ears and three teeth. Honestly, it does look better in person, but still not perfect...kinda cool though.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #119
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WTF, double post...see next post.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
How many "Obama's in Nooses" you think there are? You do know that "lynching" is a racist thing, right? a white woman hanging by a noose is very different than a black man hanging from a noose.

And "left wing ****"? I guess you hadn't heard about the gay rights bill in california. but you're probably a raging homophobe so it doesn't matter.
Bwahahahaha, I'm a homophobe, driving a miata...hahaha. I don't care what people do in their own home, that's their business. If you saw the guys that own the house/Palin hanging "artwork" in their interview....you would call them left wing **** too.

I don't care if it's a black guy hanging from a noose, you know women were persecuted in England and during the salem witch trials and hung/burned at the stake, so couldn't it be seen as a sexist thing to hang Palin? It would be different if it said "Hang Ni****" in front of Obama but it doesn't...The one person I've seen brought into the national spotlight over an Obama hanging joke was arrested for a hate crime....complete and utter bullshit in my opinion..

Now, back to pumpkins.
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