Sensitive throttle pedal in non sporty cars? Blame the average driver - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
no, I keep telling you why and you keep going full retard and not listening. we talked like 20 times about this now:
your car in general is very unresponsive. super low cr, miles of pre-turbo exhaust piping, and it doesn't help that its all corked up with the stock intake downpipe and exhaust since you refuse to modify it. It will always be way less responsive than your miata.

Go drive a drive-by-cable subaru (any 02-05 wrx will do) and suddenly your pipe dreams of dbc "fixing" everything will be shattered and you will realize your theory is fail and aidz.
But at least the throttle will act right. It's hard to screw up the throttle response of a steel wire.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:33 AM   #22
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I can understand what you're saying, but there's actually a delay between throttle input and an actual reaction from the motor.

thank about it this way, if you open the throttle the engine speed should increase.

if I put my foot down, i expect the engine speed to change, not wait a measurable amount of time before something happens, I dont believe that has anything to do witht eh CR and turbo plumbing. that might effect the amount of TQ and turbo response, but the throttle response is severely lacking, I shouldn't be able to have my throttle pegged to the floor and wait for the motor to do something...regardless of how handicapped it is on the exhaust side.

It's like this

Code:
Time 	Time Time Time Time 	More Time
Press throttle		Throttle opens	Fuel injected.
when the car is in motion, so long as I'm already on the throttle, it reacts perfectly fine. But if I have to say downshift to 2nd or 3rd and floor it, I feel like I have to wait for a reaction before the motor starts to wind up. Like I'm driving an automatic with a torque convertor that doesn't do anything.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #23
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lol you make it sound like you go wot, wait a few days, then the car moves.

drama llama

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGearRubber View Post
But at least the throttle will act right. It's hard to screw up the throttle response of a steel wire.
10 or 20 years ago people said the same thing about carbs vs efi
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 2ndGearRubber View Post
The 1992 honda accord was, and still is, an excellent car. Yet, it has OBDI, A throttle cable, and a 4speed auto. And it's damn reliable and easy to work with. Just because there are incremental gains from a technology, doesn't mean it's better.
'92 Accord?

Captive brake rotors?

FU*K THAT

I seriously want to kick whoever at Honda R&D Japan is responsible for that bullsh*t in the *****. Seriously.

Other than that it's a fine automobile
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
lol you make it sound like you go wot, wait a few days, then the car moves.
Kinda how Y8s described it when he drove it the other day, and he dailies a DBW mini...
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:46 AM   #26
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I dunno. I have driven a ton of subaru's over the years and know for a fact my fxt had better/crisper throttle response than all dbc wrx's I've driven.

Maybe you got a lemon
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post

10 or 20 years ago people said the same thing about carbs vs efi

EFI had massive upsides, and much less maintenance. DBW has the exact same amount of maintenance as a cable (ie: none), yet due to emissions standards is being used by car makers to fubar something that should be cut and dry.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
'92 Accord?

Captive brake rotors?

FU*K THAT

I seriously want to kick whoever at Honda R&D Japan is responsible for that bullsh*t in the *****. Seriously.

Other than that it's a fine automobile

Use an "on car" brake lathe, or do a retrofit from some acura model.

Very good car through. My buddy had one that snapped a timing belt, and tipped the #4 valves pretty bad. Tested at 80 pounds of compression on number 4, but we got it to run with a 25 gap spark plug. Ran for about 5 months after that, progressively getting worse, until he sold it. Still got 15mpg with a dead cylinder, and a blinking drive light (no-overdrive) transmission.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I dunno. I have driven a ton of subaru's over the years and know for a fact my fxt had better/crisper throttle response than all dbc wrx's I've driven.

Maybe you got a lemon

I bet I just need to lower/eliminate my CL/OL delay.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:20 PM   #29
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cl/ol delay only applies to the transition from vac to boost and has nothing to do with throttle response. it will smooth out your power deliver real good at the expense of a couple mpg tho
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #30
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from what i've read it's literally a timer to get into OL once you're surpassed the pre-determined conditions for such, I think mashing WOT should put me into OL.

I should pick up a **** ton low-end torque from getting the AFRs richer during spool as well. I remember my last log I didn't like how long the ECU held the AFRs at 14.7 anyways.

MPGs are not a worry, because I know how to drive. I'm currently averaging 24mpg in stop and go traffic. I'm getting 29-30 in hwy cruise and 15-19 running to the store and sitting at stoplights and parking lots and crap. I'm averaging 23mpg a tank.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:30 PM   #31
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LOL this is a subaru tuning thread now

Yeah I know all that. 0 delay feelzguudman
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:44 PM   #32
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I think mine's still at 75 or 100, down from the default of like 15 minutes.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:05 PM   #33
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My girl has a DBW Mini. She loves it.

I could crash that car into a bridge, I'd watch, I'd let it burn....I'd laugh maniacally.

That damn car has three debilitating problems...

First, the speedometer is off by 20%....20%? ******* SERIOUSLY? To do 75 (GPS Confirmed) I have to put the speedometer on 90mph. What the ******* ****?

The second debilitating problem is the transmission - and I'm quite sure that the second problem is aggrivated by the first. She bought (before I knew her) a CVT car. If you're indicating 60mph, the transmission doesn't know what "gear" to be in, it speeds up, then slows down, then speeds up.... at 55mph, if you slowly let off the gas, the engine RPM SPEEDS UP, and at most speeds it seems that if you floor it the RPMS go DOWN... Why the hell would the RPMs go down if I floored the car? That makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever..."I need to pass a car, so lets move to a far less torquey portion of the RPM range!!!"

Finally, on topic with this thread, the third, final, and most frustrating debilitating handicap on this car is the DBW throttle. If I'm at a stop sign and need to turn left onto a busy street, this is how the throttle works:
1. Floor it.
2. Car immediately moves forward so as to ensure that you make it into the "rightbound lane" of the intersection.
3. Throttle pauses, still rolling slowly forward
4. Throttle still pauses.
5. Throttle still pauses.
6. I look 200 feet to my left at the car approaching me at 55mph, wondering if I'm going to die or if he is going to take mercy on the poor soul in the mini cooper sitting in the middle of the intersection
7. Car lurches forward, propelling me rapidly towards the ditch on the far side of this "T" intersection, I jerk the wheel to the left to make sure I don't crash into the ditch on the far side. Finally I'm in the "leftbound" lane.
8. The SUV Behind me, which I should have been well and safely ahead of at this point in time, has white smoke pouring out from his sliding front tires, with his bright lights flashing in my rearview mirror, and his horn blasting out decibels for all to hear.

I think at this point, I've almost died in that mini cooper 3 times because of the throttle response. I'm not exaggerating how much of a problem it is.

In other circumstances, while stopped at a traffic light ready to drive forward.

1. Light turns green
2. Push lightly on the throttle pedal
3. Car barely moves
4. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
5. Car moves barely faster
6. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
7. Car is moving slightly faster than turtle at this point
8. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
9. Front tires squeal, my girlfriend in the passenger's seat suffers a bad case of whiplash, and now I have to listen to her whine about how I shouldn't floor her car from a stop light.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:14 PM   #34
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Take a vid. I cannot imagine modern cars being this shitty (and possibly dangerous)
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
1. Light turns green
2. Push lightly on the throttle pedal
3. Car barely moves
4. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
5. Car moves barely faster
6. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
7. Car is moving slightly faster than turtle at this point
8. Push slightly harder on throttle pedal
9. Front tires squeal, my girlfriend in the passenger's seat suffers a bad case of whiplash, and now I have to listen to her whine about how I shouldn't floor her car from a stop light.
Sounds exactly like my experience with the Euro-spec VW CC.

This must be a German thing.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:16 PM   #36
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sounds like my issue too. i like to weave in traffic and sometimes i can mash it even in 2nd, switch lanes, and the car does not go forward; then suddenly 18psi -- luckily not 18-wheeler on my bumper.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #37
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So the moral of the story is that some Mazdas, some VWs and some Minis have a DBW configuration which, to some drivers, seems less optimal than the configuration found in some Subarus.

Glad we settled that conclusively.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:56 AM   #38
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here, i illustrated my issue:



Attached Thumbnails
Sensitive throttle pedal in non sporty cars?  Blame the average driver-dbc.jpg   Sensitive throttle pedal in non sporty cars?  Blame the average driver-dbw.jpg  
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:06 AM   #39
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propped
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:21 AM   #40
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RE: mini cooper DBW. Our experience with an '03 Cooper S.

They do a great job making the car feel like it has a 50lb flywheel, which it obviously does not.

I have also experienced the 'holy **** I'm going to die WTF" while trying to accelerate briskly infront of oncoming traffic. And heaven forbid a tire slip slightly, then it seems to shut off completely for a couple seconds.

I click off the traction control as one of the first things when I get in the car. Then it's a completely different car, very fun. Except for that damn heavy flywheel effect.

EDIT: I've been completely happy with the factory DBW maps on my '05 subaru OBXT. 5MT car with a 'heavy' WRX flywheel, it does what my brain wants it to
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