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Old 03-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #41
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since im bored...im goign to throw that into a MSQ table...
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:55 AM   #42
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here:



you can see how he adds a lot more timing back in, I think we can get away with it too...when i look at an old map, when i first dynoed with MS i was hitting 20 at 12psi. We all jsut need to stop being cheap ******** and tune that **** yo.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:16 PM   #43
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i should finally be getting my car out of storage in the next few weeks, so i'll be able to report on some of these mods with a '93 greddy turbo'd whip... :-)
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
here:

it looks so pretty in rainbow. I should note that there's a few things going on in my map.

1. high boost, low RPM: who cares
2. low boost, high RPM: cruise. advanced a lot. basically lean your maps out to 15 or 16:1 and then use timing to get you the EGT you want.
3. < 20 kPa: compression braking.
4. < 1000 rpm: idle / off-idle.

Scott I'd actually change that 1000 column to 1300 or something so your idle isn't crossing a boundary into high advance. Or maybe even ditch the 500 column, make it 1300, and put a 1800 ish column between 1300 and 2300 and run about 2 degrees less than the pink cells there.

similar for the vac rows (0-34 kpa). it's a lot of resolution for idle and overrun. maybe go 0, 30, 55, etc. if you look at my map, it has basically 5 points (4 zones) across the load range. mostly the space between is linearly interpolated. idle, off-boost, transition, boost.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:49 PM   #45
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Sam, if this can be done with out pinging I bet there is alot more power still in the car.

Wow what a difference from my map and yours!

Yours on top.
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Dyno Tuning, Take a Look FM we want your timingz-y8s_spark.jpg   Dyno Tuning, Take a Look FM we want your timingz-myspark-map.jpg  
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:49 PM   #46
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you have the file for that? after i get my fuel map real good i want to try this map on my stock motor. How much tuning is needed on the fuel map after you do a change to spark?
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:50 PM   #47
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I looked at Y8s's timing and then the DIY PNP default timing map. I thought there is no reason to be MORE conservative than DIY on timing so I came up with a hybrid spark map between the 2. might load it in my car today and give it a whirl.

Y8S


DIY


Hybrid
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:57 PM   #48
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if anyone wants those vex files they are stored in the same directory as those images
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:57 PM   #49
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would these more aggressive maps work fine on a N/A engine with the MSPnP?
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe View Post
would these more aggressive maps work fine on a N/A engine with the MSPnP?

why give up all the resolution? i use this on my NA 94 with HiRes MSPNP



.vex file is there if you want it
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:20 PM   #51
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yeah, that makes sense. I'll try that out when the MS gets here and before the turbo goes on.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:31 PM   #52
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Got a question about the hybrid map. There is a dip in the advance in the 3400-5200 rpm columns, with most of it in the 4600 column and 4000 column. I am assuming this is because it is the peak torque region of the motor and hence higher cylinder pressures require some timing reduction.

I cruise at 3500-4000 in 5th on the highway, sometimes more . So, in the lower vacuum regions of the map, say up to 55 or 75 kpa, would it be a good idea to add back some advance in order to provide better cruise efficiency? Or would it be too much timing still? Not talking about knock limits for cruise, just best efficiency.

Thanks
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:02 PM   #53
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Getting ants in pants here. Anyone have any suggestion on what timing I could run on CA gas? I want to take one of these tables, subtract out X degrees across the board and go try it.

And when do I get worried about EGT? My gauge was not pegged racing this turbo'ed mustang the other day on the freeway, but was close.
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:19 AM   #54
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Another "noobe" tuning question...what relationship does the timing table have to the VE table? If I just plug in one of the above tables, is it going to play havoc with my AF?
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:08 AM   #55
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not really....




this was literally spark only changes....i went from, IIRC, 10 to 19 and made about 20rwhp.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:10 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcantDo55 View Post
Another "noobe" tuning question...what relationship does the timing table have to the VE table? If I just plug in one of the above tables, is it going to play havoc with my AF?
There isn't much relationship between the two. However, downloading an aggressive timing map for someone else's car and blindly plugging it into your ECU can be a little dangerous. A map that's the perfect level of aggression for a different engine may be too advanced for another.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:58 AM   #57
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^I've gotta agree.
But I'll caveat with saying that a bone stock 1.6 or 1.8 BP engine is so simple a device that you're gonna be damn close on with the majority of setups we run around here.

I wouldn't take the fuel table for a 2.0FM stroker running a T4 and drop it into my car... but it'd probably still be driveable and be moderately safe if nothing more than rich up top and a little lean at tip-in.

I think we've gotten to the point specifically with tuning MS for the Miata that some of the smarter guys could probably build you a complete MSQ from scratch just by knowing which turbo and injectors you're running and be 90% close.

I think this thread specifically has helped a lot with guy understanding the spark tables and just how much room there is to play. I personally can't wait to see what another 7*-8* of timing will buy me. I think I'm just gonna load up Paul's hybrrid table and be done with it.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:03 AM   #58
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I gotta agree too. I posted mine so everyone could see where there's postential room for improvement over what they have.

That said, an "aggressive map" for a 10:1 compression turbo car is probably not that aggressive
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:05 AM   #59
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Sam, I very much disagree and think it's a less than good idea to assume that Paul's spark map is wise to run. At minimum, he has a different motor, manifold, turbo, and exhaust....
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:07 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
I think we've gotten to the point specifically with tuning MS for the Miata that some of the smarter guys could probably build you a complete MSQ from scratch just by knowing which turbo and injectors you're running and be 90% close.
I actually dont agree with that. way too many variables. the MSPNP map on my stock miata needed plenty of tuning. while you may get into the ballpark, no map will be perfect on first startup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
I think this thread specifically has helped a lot with guy understanding the spark tables and just how much room there is to play. I personally can't wait to see what another 7*-8* of timing will buy me. I think I'm just gonna load up Paul's hybrrid table and be done with it.
we pretty much as all using a DIY or FM base map for spark, which is safe and conservative. This is where the power is unlocked and where you'd wanna play the most with with dyno time on a loaded dyno. It's also very dangerous to play with...so take heed and be careful, paul's map is fairly advanced compared to most, while you may get away with it, it could be a ticking time bomb. I got away with 19-20 of timing at 12psi, last time i was on the dyno I swear I was pinigng at 15 at the same boost....
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