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Adventures in PTE/TTE

Old 12-30-2015, 11:00 PM
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So I took my new-to-me 99 to the dyno tonight.

NASA approved dynojet.

Two seasons on a very healthy feeling OEM rebuild.
Racing Beat intake
Racing Beat header
Racing Beat cat back exhaust
Stock ecu

Heartbreaker to the max.

113/109

I have AIM Solo data showing me pull away from a friends na8 SM, and it FEELS faster than my 135 dynapack horsepower BP4w swapped NA.

Theories? IS it down on power? I know the stock ecu is killing me.

PTE plan is to swap in a stock header and get a computer on there for e85 fun. But I was hoping for a higher starting point.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:23 AM
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Have you taken weight into consideration for these comparisons you're making? Also corner exit speed (tire compound, suspension, LSD) has a LOT to do with how much it feels like you can pull people in the straights.

Power sounds about right to me with stock ECU and hot air intake but I would expect closer to 118WHP on the top end. Would help if we could see the dyno. Still have stock cat in? May be a bit clogged because it looks like you're missing top end. I'm making 125WHP and 109WTQ on an NA8. My standalone Adaptronic and a day on the dyno with a professional tuner added 8WHP everywhere above 4000 RPM coming from the stock ECU with no other changes.

Engine Mods for reference:
91 Pump Gas
No power steering or A/C
NB Purple Injectors
5x Racing Adjustable FPR
Adaptronic Plug and Play Standalone
Exhintake Cam Mod
Homebrew Cold Air Intake
Racing Beat Header
Racing Beat 2.25" Test Pipe
Roadstersport 3 Catback 2.25"
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by doward View Post

Theories? IS it down on power? I know the stock ecu is killing me.
I would do a leakdown and compression test before making anymore changes. Even with the stock ECU it should be able to hit 125whp with your mods. A decent 99 Spec Miata is doing at least 125whp with a restrictor plate.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
So I took my new-to-me 99 to the dyno tonight.

NASA approved dynojet.

Two seasons on a very healthy feeling OEM rebuild.
Racing Beat intake
Racing Beat header
Racing Beat cat back exhaust
Stock ecu

Heartbreaker to the max.

113/109

I have AIM Solo data showing me pull away from a friends na8 SM, and it FEELS faster than my 135 dynapack horsepower BP4w swapped NA.

Theories? IS it down on power? I know the stock ecu is killing me.

PTE plan is to swap in a stock header and get a computer on there for e85 fun. But I was hoping for a higher starting point.
That sounds very low. Back in 2013, my stock motor with stock intake, stock ECU, SM exhaust, and stock header dynoed 125. Later that year with an intake, ECU, and full exhaust it dynoed 136.

If you're using Backstreet dyno, I swear it reads low. 5hp maybe.

As suggested, do the leakdown/compression test. Also, I'd ditch that catalytic converter. No need for that!
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by speedengineer View Post
That sounds very low. Back in 2013, my stock motor with stock intake, stock ECU, SM exhaust, and stock header dynoed 125.
Dynojet? If it was a legitimate 125whp, that's SM pro-motor power and someone would have paid you ~$6k for the longblock+MAF+ECU+exhaust.

114 sounds a few WHP low, but not that far off for a car that's essentially stock with a full exhaust.

Everyone assumes that their OEM longblock will make SM pro-motor power, and that's not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Dynojet? If it was a legitimate 125whp, that's SM pro-motor power and someone would have paid you ~$6k for the longblock+MAF+ECU+exhaust.
Same motor I had out at Miller in 2013, Andrew! Dynojet SAE. I'm 90% sure it was still stock header at that point, but 10% chance it had a raceland. Definitely stock Intake, ECU, and borla SM exhaust.

To be fair, the top SM motors these days are getting almost to 130hp, and that's with a restrictor.
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by speedengineer View Post
Same motor I had out at Miller in 2013, Andrew! Dynojet SAE. I'm 90% sure it was still stock header at that point, but 10% chance it had a raceland. Definitely stock Intake, ECU, and borla SM exhaust.

To be fair, the top SM motors these days are getting almost to 130hp, and that's with a restrictor.
If that Dyno result was from the MCE dyno at nationals in 2013 you can go ahead and knock off like 10 WHP. Lol.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:44 PM
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I learned yesterday that the PO had this car/engine dynoed as it sits today in June last year at 129whp for his TTE reclass.

I'm borrowing a compression/leak down tester tomorrow. We'll what that says. If it turns out fine, Should I try the other Dynojet in town?
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:56 PM
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I have received my new re-class numbers. With the most recent lbs/hp addition, are many people thinking of just moving to PTD?
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:47 PM
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I've even seen two cars in this region add significant amounts of power to make it out into ST3 where they aren't getting hammered by a year/make/model specific handicap.

ST4 would probably be pretty awesome. You could make it there with a stock 1.8L and a decent turbo kit. Run about 200WHP and somewhere around 2350 to 2400lbs and 245 Hoosiers assuming they make the power to weight cap 12.0.

ST5 and ST6 are still going to be gay though because it looks like Greg will be adding in a year/make/model specific mod factor sheet so he can still beat down specific cars he doesn't like.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:12 PM
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Hey man, it's just not fair that we're basically in purpose built race cars. How can you expect Honda Odysseys to be competitive without some help?


(Ignores fact that far more money has been spent developing Miatas for PT than any other car)
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
Hey man, it's just not fair that we're basically in purpose built race cars. How can you expect Honda Odysseys to be competitive without some help?


(Ignores fact that far more money has been spent developing Miatas for PT than any other car)
+1

I was going to say the same. At the 2012 thunderhill 25 hours, Miatas of one year or another took something like 10 of the 15 available podium spots. There are scant few pro level racing categories where there aren't constant adjustments for parity. That the NA and NB have received so many adjustments is a testament to the inherent brilliance of the platform, it's relative economy and both the skill and persistance of the racers flogging them.
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:38 PM
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I recently acquired a 94 parts car for a PTE build (for parts anyway), but, I really, REALLY need to be talked out of an ST3 Exocet build. Like, REALLY.

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Old 01-06-2016, 04:40 PM
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That sounds like a terrible idea and you should come back to PTE.
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
I really, REALLY need to be talked out of an ST3 Exocet build. Like, REALLY.


You won't.
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
You won't.
Unless you meant TT3, ST3 is a dead class in MA and SE. 1 person ran one weekend in MA all year. There was a single race (not weekend) in SE with 4 people. All the other races were 0, 1 or 2 cars.
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
That the NA and NB have received so many adjustments is a testament to the inherent brilliance of the platform, it's relative economy and both the skill and persistance of the racers flogging them.
... and some vendors willing to do all the research for us and providing the right parts that make us go faster.

Thank you Emillio and William, and probably more I don't know about.
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
... and some vendors willing to do all the research for us and providing the right parts that make us go faster.

Thank you Emillio and William, and probably more I don't know about.
Andrew was the other prime instigator. There was about 2 years where we both poured a ton of time and money into it. I kinda miss the bleeding edge in this relative backwater amateur class.

I recall the first time I saw the PT ruleset in 2010 or so. Based on what I read I thought "damn, these cars should be way faster than Spec Miata records". When I saw all the existing PTE records were quite a bit slower than SM I realized no one who knew/cared was building a built to the limit PT car like a $50K Runoffs rotisserie Spec Miata build. Door was wide open for us and that was dyno classed. William argued for a points car back in 2012 but I didn't know how to make the power cap and still make it handle until I had messed with them for a year or so. End of 12 I figured it out and built Super, then didn't take it to nationals so Andrew and William could duke it out. They both broke so we helped Jason Kohler win instead. Fun stuff.
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:15 AM
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Funny thing is...ever since you guys developed these all dominating PT miatas NASA PT involvement #s have dropped more and more and more.

The last time I raced at NASA Nationals, PTE had a pretty healthy field. A fairly diverse field; miatas, SE-Rs, FB rx-7s, old civics, etc. The last few years...not so much.

Yes, more money has been spent developing the Miata in PT then any other platform. More money has probably been spent racing the miata in any class, in any organization, in any country, ever. I guess that's what happens when you're the "Most Road Raced Car" ever. Now a "Joe Schmoe" can copy any number of Miata formulas and be pretty competitive in PTE, PTD, and PTC.

Does PT seem better off for it?


Now NASA/Greg is forced to slow down Miatas to try to increase participation from other marques, and stem the tide from ST4/ST5/ST6?


Here's the bed you've made? Enjoy it???
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:24 AM
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I don't feel like having some people come in and take everyone to school in their class is the main contributing factor to whether or not people participate in NASA nationals.

I used to make it to every single NASA regional event until I got boned multiple times, not because someone was beating me. Now I attend maybe only 25% of the events and do most of my racing elsewhere.

I for one think that splitting the event up into East and West champs was stupid, they should have just had it on a rotating schedule. One year West, one year Central, one year East. Also getting rid of Speedcast TV coverage was stupid. It feels like they cut way back on the budget for these events and are committing funds elsewhere. The NP01 program is pretty suspect to me.
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