rear knuckle upper spherical discussion - Page 12 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-2015, 03:36 PM   #221
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

4340 seems like a solid choice. I was thinking about 1144 stress proof since its supposed to be easier to machine, and it half the material cost. Not quite as strong as the 4340 but better than 4130, not as hard as the 4340.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 03:56 PM   #222
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
yep. low friction pivot sleeves for on the inside of off the shelf urathane bushings. I switched material and made them out of 4340. should be tough eoungh I think.
Anti-seize as the lubrication? What a great idea.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 05:17 PM   #223
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Azusa, CA
Posts: 1,376
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Anti-seize as the lubrication? What a great idea.
what would the maintenance re-grease interview be on something like this using anti-seize or some type bearing grease?
cyotani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 05:39 PM   #224
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
what would the maintenance re-grease interview be on something like this using anti-seize or some type bearing grease?
About 1/365th at least the rate needed with straight urethane to keep it pivoting smoothly I’m hoping. Static friction difference is about 45lbs less force measured at the wheel to initiate sliding friction compared to freshly greased straight urethane as well but it should retain the lack of bushing alignment bind associated with going to Delrin over urethane.

The bushings are teflon/oil impregnated bronze. shouldnt need much of any lubracation. it still has some surfaces sliding against urethane I've had the bes luck with copper antisize mixed with grease for that.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 05:55 PM   #225
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
About 1/365th at least the rate needed with straight urethane to keep it pivoting smoothly Iím hoping. Static friction difference is about 45lbs less force measured at the wheel to initiate sliding friction compared to freshly greased straight urethane as well but it should retain the lack of bushing alignment bind associated with going to Delrin over urethane.

The bushings are teflon/oil impregnated bronze. shouldnt need much of any lubracation. it still has some surfaces sliding against urethane I've had the bes luck with copper antisize mixed with grease for that.
Okay, by extension these bearings would work with Delrin too, right?
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 05:58 PM   #226
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Okay, by extension these bearings would work with Delrin too, right?
Sure but why? Bob's bushing design is about reducing the rotating friction with poly bushings. Delrin bushings dont really have friction issues. They do have binding issues, and thats why Bob is using poly instead of delrin.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:12 PM   #227
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
cordycord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,775
Total Cats: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Sure but why? Bob's bushing design is about reducing the rotating friction with poly bushings. Delrin bushings dont really have friction issues. They do have binding issues, and thats why Bob is using poly instead of delrin.
Binding based on tolerance issues? Overtightening of the bolts? Just trying to find the right suspension mix, and gain some knowledge in the process.
cordycord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:25 PM   #228
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Binding based on tolerance issues? Overtightening of the bolts? Just trying to find the right suspension mix, and gain some knowledge in the process.
Due to the delrin having not enough compliance. The lower inners need to allow some off axis movement or they'll bind.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:34 PM   #229
Junior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 473
Total Cats: 23
Default

I am interested in seeing how these metal to metal bushings hold out. When I worked on aircraft in the military we had a hard time fighting corrosion when using dissimilar metals such as these, but that was mostly when you used aluminum sheeting and metal steel screws. I also experienced some on the magnesium reduction gear housing and some of the associated hardware. Of course these were carrier based aircraft, so the conditions they were subject to are probably way worse than anything these bushings would be subject to.

With that said, I think they are pretty awesome!

Edit: I can't word

Last edited by 90civichhb; 01-21-2015 at 12:01 AM.
90civichhb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:37 PM   #230
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90civichhb View Post
I am interested in seeing how these metal to metal bushings hold out. When I worked on aircraft in the military we had a hard time fighting corrosion when using dissimilar metals such as these, but that was mostly when you used aluminum sheeting and metal screws. I also experienced some on the magnesium reduction gear housing and some of the associated hardware. Of course these were carrier based aircraft, so the conditions they were subject to are probably way worse than anything these bushings would be subject to.

With that said, I think they are pretty awesome!
Brass on steel should be fine corrosion wise. If a car with these were going to see rain I'd probably want to see them packed with moly grease just to keep the water out.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 07:47 PM   #231
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,903
Total Cats: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
yep. low friction pivot sleeves for on the inside of off the shelf urathane bushings. I switched material and made them out of 4340. should be tough eoungh I think.
very cool bob. my only concern, which will play out in use, would be wear of the bronze sleeve. but they are cheap and it should be easy enough so not a huge concern.

at work we use bronze sleeves ubiquitously, some are older than me, some i replace every few weeks on the automation equipment. id like to hear back how these wear for you.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2015, 10:46 PM   #232
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,903
Total Cats: 612
Default

much excite!


bacon bits not included



turbo kitten is watching you install spherical bearings into your rear knuckle



for some reason the machinist made 5 extra. i think he was super happy that i pre-payed him. he was complaining a lot about other customer just disappearing after parts were made. wtf is wrong with people? anyway, i now have 4 sets available still for sale. ill make a posting in the classifieds if they dont go soon once i get all the spacers made up.

i have a busy weekend, so ill start making spacers on Monday and hope to start shipping these out to you guys next week.
Attached Thumbnails
rear knuckle upper spherical discussion-20150122_165456_zpsvivhmyk6.jpg   rear knuckle upper spherical discussion-20150122_165918_zpsctqmjxqc.jpg   rear knuckle upper spherical discussion-20150122_171837_zpswxon81o5.jpg  
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 06:35 PM   #233
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Thats cool. Those came out really well.

On to other bushings. The front uppers. Does anyone else arms slide forward? Like so.





Trying to figure out something to combat this. Its like the metal sleeves are too long. It is interesting that by playing with the sleeve lengths you can skew some more caster into the car.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:31 PM   #234
Junior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 473
Total Cats: 23
Default

I am about to order some parts from McMaster-Carr and I was wondering if these bearings would work for the sleeves. I think the outer diameter may be a bit too small though.

Edit: Well it won't let me direct link to the bearing, but it is the 1 3/16 OD with a 5/8 ID.
90civichhb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:35 PM   #235
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,903
Total Cats: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90civichhb View Post
I am about to order some parts from McMaster-Carr and I was wondering if these bearings would work for the sleeves. I think the outer diameter may be a bit too small though.

Edit: Well it won't let me direct link to the bearing, but it is the 1 3/16 OD with a 5/8 ID.
you linked the bearing section, not a specific bearing. i didnt see anything on mcmaster that would work, but i didnt look very long.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 10:40 PM   #236
Junior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 473
Total Cats: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
you linked the bearing section, not a specific bearing. i didnt see anything on mcmaster that would work, but i didnt look very long.
Sorry about that, it won't allow me to direct link the bearing itself for some reason. If you didn't see anything that would work then I am sure they don't carry one. Just trying kill the proverbial birds.
90civichhb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2015, 11:53 PM   #237
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,903
Total Cats: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90civichhb View Post
Sorry about that, it won't allow me to direct link the bearing itself for some reason. If you didn't see anything that would work then I am sure they don't carry one. Just trying kill the proverbial birds.
im going to see what else i can find

i found a possible easy seal solution for you guys, although a little pricey.
the timken 480889


the same place i ordered my sphericals from has them, so if youre going to get your bearings there...
https://www.motionindustries.com/pro...p?sku=01316673

if you go the qa1 route at summit, well they have them too
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmk-480889


ebay
480889 National New Seal | eBay

its for a 1.3125" bore and has an ID of 0.812". the spacers are 0.825", it should be perfect and allow just a few degrees of misalignment. i would press it all the way up against the bearing/shoulder to reduce the amount of spacer movement it will see. i havnt tried this myself yet though, so no guarantees.

your local oreilly can order them too, but @ $10 each

i have yet to find an oring of suitable dimensions

in other news my set went through their first track day today, running with 2 drivers in 2 different groups, so consider it 2 track days. they performed flawlessly.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2015, 12:04 AM   #238
Junior Member
 
guttedmiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
Total Cats: -3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Thats cool. Those came out really well.

On to other bushings. The front uppers. Does anyone else arms slide forward? Like so.



Trying to figure out something to combat this. Its like the metal sleeves are too long. It is interesting that by playing with the sleeve lengths you can skew some more caster into the car.
You just need to make a set of these
Attached Thumbnails
rear knuckle upper spherical discussion-image.jpg  
guttedmiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2015, 12:08 AM   #239
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
You just need to make a set of these
Well the rod ends arent in bending, but I'd rather have specials or aluminum bushings
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2015, 07:29 AM   #240
SadFab CEO
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,903
Total Cats: 612
Default

Delrin for the front uppers, dial in the shoulder width to get the caster up a little
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 AM.