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Old 04-09-2012, 08:47 PM   #21
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There is a corner that's so scary at HHR and MSR-H that I have to put my left foot over my right to hold my right foot down on the throttle becuase my brain tells my foot that "you should really lift, this is dumb". It's pretty retarded to do this at 120mph+, but this is what makes us men.
Thats funny, A guy at a hill climb last year was telling me how he had to use his hand on his knee to hold his foot down through a section... apparently your subconscious taking over in the interest of self preservation isn't so uncommon, lol
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:26 PM   #22
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I think i'll stay with the 1.8 brakes for now and go DTC-60 or XP10s. Same pad front and rear, right? And do you guys rebuild your own calipers or buy parts store replacments?
1.8 brakes are woefully inadequate for 200+whp cars that weigh 2500+lbs. I ran through a brand new set of XP10s in 5 sessions at Laguna on 1.8 brakes. The caliper cannot press evenly on the pad, which causes hotspots, accelerated wear, and warped backing plates. You really should reconsider a Wilwood kit.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:32 PM   #23
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There is a corner that's so scary at HHR and MSR-H that I have to put my left foot over my right to hold my right foot down on the throttle becuase my brain tells my foot that "you should really lift, this is dumb". It's pretty retarded to do this at 120mph+, but this is what makes us men.
Exactly what the kink at CMP is like. Last time I was there I was running pretty consistant 105-110mph with just a slight lift before turn in, flat with that car (253whp 277wtq 2900#) would be 120+. That's the reason I keep running CMP when most of my friends have moved on to VIR, gotta overcome the fear.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:39 PM   #24
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1.8 brakes are woefully inadequate for 200+whp cars that weigh 2500+lbs. I ran through a brand new set of XP10s in 5 sessions at Laguna on 1.8 brakes. The caliper cannot press evenly on the pad, which causes hotspots, accelerated wear, and warped backing plates. You really should reconsider a Wilwood kit.
I'll tell the wife my safety is at stake and see if my budget expands, hope so.

Could I do just the fronts to start?
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:21 PM   #25
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That's all i've done through the kink anyway cause i'm a big chickenshit. Lol. Still have about 6' of run out left and have yet to stay flat through there. Running right behind an STI as we went through at 105+ and him spinning right in front of me didn't help build confidence either. Haha
haha, at that power level you probably can't go through the kink flat out. especially if you are on 225 RS3s. The big thing is not to be a ----- about it and slow down to 90 or some chicken ---- speed like that. I have had one too many close calls in which I was catching people going into the kink (I definitely slow down more when a car is ahead of me now)...NOT a fun place to be using your brakes.

I am not sure what your suspension setup is, but I don't doubt you have plenty more to go! That's about the same speeds I take (I am more in the 100-103, because I DID spin out at the kink before) with my 205 AD08/star specs.

I know I have said it twice now, but the 3rd time is a charm. at your power levels, you realllly gotta step up your brakes. If all you can fit in the budget is a front BBK, then do that and get the rears at another time. if you have adjustable shocks, you could probably stiffen up the front a bit to keep more weight rearward, but I don't think it matters really since you aren't going for laptimes or anything.

Have fun though CMP is AWESOME!
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:05 AM   #26
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1.8 brakes are woefully inadequate for 200+whp cars that weigh 2500+lbs. I ran through a brand new set of XP10s in 5 sessions at Laguna on 1.8 brakes. The caliper cannot press evenly on the pad, which causes hotspots, accelerated wear, and warped backing plates. You really should reconsider a Wilwood kit.
Well damn. Guess I better bring extra pads to my time trial next weekend, and add a BBK to the list. Thanks for the info
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #27
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Exactly what the kink at CMP is like. Last time I was there I was running pretty consistant 105-110mph with just a slight lift before turn in, flat with that car (253whp 277wtq 2900#) would be 120+. That's the reason I keep running CMP when most of my friends have moved on to VIR, gotta overcome the fear.
The kink at CMP is scarier than anything at VIR with the possible exception of South Bend if you turn in early.

Also, run VIR, it's ------- awesome. I was just there 2 weekends in a row. :v
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #28
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I've heard people talk of inline brake duct fans being used with positive results in stock car racing. Have any of you heard or seen such a thing?
Yes and yes.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:34 PM   #29
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Well damn. Guess I better bring extra pads to my time trial next weekend, and add a BBK to the list. Thanks for the info
You won't regret it. There are some scary corners that require braking confidence around here and its a huge boost to know the pedal is going to feel exactly the same on every corner, of every track, every time. Then, you have the exponentially longer service intervals, half priced pads, and no increase in rotor cost after the initial investment.

SM betas always comment, "do you really need all that brake? What a waste of money."
Yes I need all that brake
No, it costs me less than half as much in wear items at double the power of your car.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #30
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Yea, I definitely understand the importance of wear item costs. I'm kicking myself for just spending a bunch of $$ on the 949 stage 1 kit, when I should have done a BBK. Ohh well, live and learn.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:30 PM   #31
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You can't be scared of the kink man! It will bite you in the *** if you lift or even worse brake at the wrong time. I had an Evo pass me last year, just before the kink. Like slow motion I could see him transfer weight and begin the skid. He spun a few times and went off track. Luckily he did not hit anything, but somehow managed to mess up one of the front fenders.
My first track day EVER was in a FFR 65 roadster at CMP. That was overwhelming doing the kink at 120mph! I wish I had pictures of my white knuckles that day!
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:03 PM   #32
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I haven't confirmed this, but I have been told that the 1.375" Sport caliper fits on the 1.8 bracket, which would allow you to run DTC-60s.
Fak, I couldn't sleep after not being able to wrap my mind around this. Finally understand now that it is the caliper bracket that dictates which pad will fit. Finally came across an old post of yours and Bob's

https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....6&postcount=10


Carry on, thread. Nothing to see here.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:42 PM   #33
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I'll tell the wife my safety is at stake and see if my budget expands, hope so.

Could I do just the fronts to start?
Yeah, you can start with the fronts. The prop valve becomes more important, though.

After torching a 50% set of XP12s on Saturday, this was what I did to a fresh set of XP10s on Sunday at Laguna 3 years ago:

This is the outside pad - the stock caliper fingers pulled in on the top and warped the backing plate



This is the inside pad - single factory piston pressed on the center of the pad and warped the backing plate



The issue is caused by the factory caliper, not by the pad, so the only way to fix it is to swap to a different caliper.
Attached Thumbnails
Track brakes-dscn1355.jpg   Track brakes-dscn1356.jpg  
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #34
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You should put a link to those pics on the BBK page on TSE, it would definitely help sell the kits!
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #35
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Yeah, you can start with the fronts. The prop valve becomes more important, though.

After torching a 50% set of XP12s on Saturday, this was what I did to a fresh set of XP10s on Sunday at Laguna 3 years ago:

This is the outside pad - the stock caliper fingers pulled in on the top and warped the backing plate



This is the inside pad - single factory piston pressed on the center of the pad and warped the backing plate



The issue is caused by the factory caliper, not by the pad, so the only way to fix it is to swap to a different caliper.
I had the same experience with Carbotech. Warped and welded the backing plate to the piston on day 2 of new pads. Wish I took a picture, it was the cleanest fine blue line/TIG looking weld I've ever seen. Took the AAA taxi home that day....
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #36
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The talk in this thread of stock 1.8 brakes being inadequate for 200whp on track has me slightly worried. The only thing keeping me from getting reeeeally worried about having spec'd inadequate brakes for my build is the thought that I'll only be running 185 section AD08s. Can anyone put my mind at ease and confirm my thoughts that I simply won't be able to generate enough braking G with my ghey-section tyres to drastically overheat/taper/f*ck track pads in a 1.8 setup?
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #37
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The talk in this thread of stock 1.8 brakes being inadequate for 200whp on track has me slightly worried. The only thing keeping me from getting reeeeally worried about having spec'd inadequate brakes for my build is the thought that I'll only be running 185 section AD08s. Can anyone put my mind at ease and confirm my thoughts that I simply won't be able to generate enough braking G with my ghey-section tyres to drastically overheat/taper/f*ck track pads in a 1.8 setup?
I don't think you will have a problem, but the amount of braking G is not the only factor here. with more power and speed, you have to start the braking zone earlier (but you still turn in at the same point), so you will still be adding more heat.

I ran 205 AD08s with carbotechs and did not do any warping/welding, but I did get a slight taper on the wear for both my last sets.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by owenwilliams View Post
The talk in this thread of stock 1.8 brakes being inadequate for 200whp on track has me slightly worried. The only thing keeping me from getting reeeeally worried about having spec'd inadequate brakes for my build is the thought that I'll only be running 185 section AD08s. Can anyone put my mind at ease and confirm my thoughts that I simply won't be able to generate enough braking G with my ghey-section tyres to drastically overheat/taper/f*ck track pads in a 1.8 setup?
Nope, sadly. The tire has very little to do with it - the brakes just convert kinetic energy into heat energy, so it's a pretty simple function of how much kinetic energy you're forced to dissipate in each braking zone. This is made more difficult by the fact that kinetic energy goes up with the square of speed. The narrow tires will decrease the drive onto the front straightaway by X amount (and thus decrease the top speed), but they'll also decrease the cornering speed by X amount (and thus require you to shave off more speed than you otherwise would), so you end up being required to get rid of just about the same amount of energy via the brakes.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #39
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...Damn. Thanks for the advice, both of you.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:19 PM   #40
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So the Corrado rotor upgrade isn't a halfway option between stock and serious baller dollars anymore?
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