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Old 04-11-2012, 09:14 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by crashnscar View Post
If you look at the cost of going to the track (everything included) and the replacement/repair cost if you have a brake incident and something bad happens, it's a no brainer to have brakes that work. Add that on top of the fact consumable costs decrease with our 11.75" big brake kit and you really can't go wrong.
+1. Failures at the track are expensive when they cost track time, and the BBK is a definite improvement in reliability and longevity...

... unless you push the life of the pads way too far and destroy one of your brake calipers like I did a couple of weeks ago. The brakes failed completely at 110+ mph. No crash (never panic) but the car ended up on the trailer (could not fix the caliper, no spare) and I missed my last two sessions. Totally my fault. Thread to follow later.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:50 PM   #62
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It's quite possible that my brakes are indeed inconsistent after the hard braking zone after the long back straight at ECR, before the diving into the canyon.
I think its a case of you not knowing what you're missing, but still getting the job done.
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However, since I don't use them in the canyon, how would I know?
Subtle "I Hoosier R6" post. You're braking left-left double apex though.

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Originally Posted by sixace View Post
Some tracks and some drivers are harder on setups. Given.
Even with the Corrado brakes, there is no way in hell they were going to cut the mustard at ECR, my current set-up is the first I've had where I can go 100%, every lap at ECR.

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Hustler. Is your setup (front) the same as ZX-Tex?
Yes, but I have superior venting into the rotor, I think his are on the rotor surface.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:52 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
+1. Failures at the track are expensive when they cost track time, and the BBK is a definite improvement in reliability and longevity...

... unless you push the life of the pads way too far and destroy one of your brake calipers like I did a couple of weeks ago. The brakes failed completely at 110+ mph. No crash (never panic) but the car ended up on the trailer (could not fix the caliper, no spare) and I missed my last two sessions. Totally my fault. Thread to follow later.
I had 3 100mph+ brake failures in one season, I couldn't get the TSE brakes fast enough. My favorite was zero pedal pressure into rattle-snake, then driving through the infield and out the back near ricochet, splitting traffic. I could have been seriously hurt and all those failures really scared me. It took about 1-year or maybe longer to regain braking confidence like I have today. Braking capacity aside, they were worth the money to get my head right.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:15 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
1.8 brakes are woefully inadequate for 200+whp cars that weigh 2500+lbs. I ran through a brand new set of XP10s in 5 sessions at Laguna on 1.8 brakes. The caliper cannot press evenly on the pad, which causes hotspots, accelerated wear, and warped backing plates. You really should reconsider a Wilwood kit.
XP10s on a big fat MSM with ~250whp. I did pass the Z06 I was chasing right before I lost the pedal completely. Nothing was bent besides the pads. I'm running the same brakes on the new car but it is at least 450# lighter than the MSM. A BBK will happen but funds are light at the moment...



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Old 04-13-2012, 04:14 AM   #65
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It took about 1-year or maybe longer to regain braking confidence like I have today. Braking capacity aside, they were worth the money to get my head right.
+1. It took a few months after switching to a Wilwood-based BBK to trust my brakes again, after having an OEM line fail, then warping pads, etc. Today it's not even a thought in my mind - just grab the middle pedal as late as you dare, and it's always there, always the same, every time.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:49 AM   #66
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+1. It took a few months after switching to a Wilwood-based BBK to trust my brakes again, after having an OEM line fail, then warping pads, etc. Today it's not even a thought in my mind - just grab the middle pedal as late as you dare, and it's always there, always the same, every time.
I had not driven this track since I regained braking confidence:

This is going to sound dumb, but I totally hated that track for a long time and only drove there once in the past two years, it's only 50-minutes from my house. I forced myself to drive it again (for free) and now that I'm back in the driver's seat with the brakes, I had sooooo much fun braking the car down and entering on slip-angle in 1, 3, 6, 7, 11. Getting phenomenal brakes on the car really helps you hit your mark when you cut 80mph off and enter with hard trail baking into a blind crest in #7, it's also fun.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:01 PM   #67
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^^^That track (ECR) is without a doubt the hardest on brakes of all our texas tracks. Seen many stooks and c5's come off with "zero" pad left and lots of cracked rotors.

Sadly, although it's only 20 minutes from my front door, I won't become a member because it's the only track I have run on where I don't feel safe/comfortable at all. Retarded/unsafe pit in/out design, and several areas where an off would be catastrophic IMO.

Last NASA race I ran there (TT) there were no less than 5 "totaled" SM's. Which exceeds 3 seasons of all the other tracks events combined.

ECR should be the posterchild of TSE BBK. If there ever was a track that "requires" the kit, this is it.

When I witnessed "that guy driving Hustler's car" in front of me (while I was at around 120) go straight off in turn 7, creating a nuke size mushroom cloud of dirt, I seriously felt for his life.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:07 PM   #68
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Last NASA race I ran there (TT) there were no less than 5 "totaled" SM's. Which exceeds 3 seasons of all the other tracks events combined.
Holy sh... I had not heard about that yet. And it is not like the SM guys do not run off course at the other tracks. I have seen it at MSRC and TWS. We all have.

These seem to be two distinguishing characteristics I hear over and over again about ECR: long straights followed by hard braking turns, and the run-off area is really dicey.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:01 PM   #69
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dood the huevos rancheros really are bigger in texas.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:28 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Holy sh... I had not heard about that yet. And it is not like the SM guys do not run off course at the other tracks. I have seen it at MSRC and TWS. We all have.

These seem to be two distinguishing characteristics I hear over and over again about ECR: long straights followed by hard braking turns, and the run-off area is really dicey.
Here's one vid. The ending is relevant to this thread.

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Old 04-17-2012, 09:57 PM   #71
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What about the weight savings/penalties of the various kits?

I have been running stock 1.8 brakes. Maybe it's the 2 tracks I run, 1,950 weight or 232whp that combine to be easy on things. I am off pace compared to others who have driven the car yet they had no issues either.

I would like to step up for better pad life but would like to reduce weight in the process as well. I like the TSE kit with sport rears but have been thinking the goodwin V4 kit would be more than enough and be lighter. The obvious downside is rotor cost. Not sure how often the goodwins would need to be changed. If Brian is to be believed they last a looong time.

Last edited by k24madness; 04-17-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:08 PM   #72
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I don't know what Brian says, but we see thermal cracks at ~10 days in the faster turbo cars. I typically expect to change rotors every 2nd or 3rd set of pads.

e: Based on the weighs that Wilwood lists, I would say that our 11.75" kit is about 0.3lbs heavier per side than the 11" kits out there.

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Old 04-19-2012, 12:31 AM   #73
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k24madness i'm very sympathetic to your point. i put off bbk for long time for same reason.

and, oddly enough, being lame has its advantages as i have all the parts in their original boxes [email protected]

fronts
11 3/4 = 9.884
1.8 = 10.334

rears
sport = 8.204
1.8 = 6.622

moving from 1.8's to 11 3/4/sport rear gives you a hit of 1.132 lbs rotating mass (edit ->) per side.

(keep in mind wilwood calipers are lighter).

(full disclosure: 1.8 rotors are used, however they measure out to as-new dimensions, so not very used)








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Old 04-19-2012, 12:50 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

fronts
11 3/4 = 9.884
1.8 = 10.334

rears
sport = 8.204
1.8 = 6.622

moving from 1.8's to 11 3/4/sport rear gives you a hit of 1.132 lbs rotating mass.
"Save about 8 lbs in front and about 4 lbs in back"

The above is quoted from 949 racing's web site regarding the Goodwin V4 kit.

So that means the Goodwin V4 weighs 3lbs less per corner on the rears vs sports and about 3lbs less per corner than the 11.75" kit.

The goodwin kit would be perfect for my needs if front rotor life is reasonable.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:57 AM   #75
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correction

moving from 1.8's to 11 3/4/sport rear gives you a hit of 1.132 lbs rotating mass per side

my appologies
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:58 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I don't know what Brian says, but we see thermal cracks at ~10 days in the faster turbo cars. I typically expect to change rotors every 2nd or 3rd set of pads.

e: Based on the weighs that Wilwood lists, I would say that our 11.75" kit is about 0.3lbs heavier per side than the 11" kits out there.
I don't think my car will be as hard on brakes as yours. You have a hell of a lot more speed to scrub off than I do. If those Goodwins are really as light as quoted that will be hard to pass up.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:37 AM   #77
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jasonb's numbers are for the rotor only. The caliper is where the majority of the weight is saved.

It's not physically possible for the V4 kit to weigh 3lbs less per corner than our kit - that would require Goodwin's hats to weigh approximately -1.1lbs. I like Brian, but I don't think he's that good
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #78
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That makes sense. I should have looked closer at Jason's numbers before replying.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #79
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seems i confused the issue, sorry about that. i didn't have 1.8 calipers to weigh, so i only gave rotating mass weights.

to be honest, i thought the l.X lb per side difference (rotating mass) between 1.8 and top shelf brakes was already pretty compelling. lighter calipers and brackets on the front is gravy imo.

$130 for a full front refresh on consumables sold me.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:35 PM   #80
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Well something is fuked up. I went and followed the 1.8 down-upgrade advice (as per https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....6&postcount=10) and find out my car is not as it seems.

I purchased pads for Sport brakes last year as this is what my car has from the factory. I installed them and used them with no issue. I collected the M-Tuned adapters and non-sport rear brackets so I could use 1.8 DTC-60 which are not available for the sport brackets. Today I go to mount everything up and notice my pads are the same as the ones that came with the 1.8 brakes I bought...wtf? I look at the brackets, they are the same. Ok so my car does not have sport brakes in the rear...(!?). I measure the rotor...10.9". I measure my piston 1.375". I measure the pistons that came with the brackets I bought...1.2xx? So it seems that either the guy I bought these from had something swapped and didn't know or specify, something changed on my car before me knowing, or I am just stupid, mis-informed and don't know wtf I am doing. I'm also aware now that I did not receive the sport rear pads last year that I thought I did.

Anyone know? Enlighten me please.

The parts at the top of both pics are off my car. They are pretty much identical. How am I able to use non-sport pads with my sport brakes.


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