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Old 09-01-2013, 04:48 PM   #101
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I think the R6 is just as fast as the C71 (I've used both), but the C71 is done after 7-8 cycles and the R6 won't cliff until cycle ~14. The 205/50 SM6s are also cheaper if you run that size (I would).
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:45 PM   #102
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Just as fast, cheaper and lasts longer works in my book. I only have the C71s because that's what I've been using for AX.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:50 PM   #103
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Here is my Sebring track record lap that beat Jon Millers "unbeatable" e85 frs record by 1.6 seconds:

I had to back up my brake zones a bit because I already flat spotted the right front to the cords and braking potential was severely diminished. The car isnt quite optimised yet either, it only makes 116tq and has a very unapealling power band, and still have points to spare and move around. Improvements to come in the offseason.
btw: I also set the record at Road Atlanta a couple weeks before this also by 1.6 seconds
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #104
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So the miata is the new TT/PT overdog?

I thought FR-S was unbeatable in D?
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:33 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circuitmstr74 View Post
Here is my Sebring track record lap that beat Jon Millers "unbeatable" e85 frs record by 1.6 seconds:
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
So the miata is the new TT/PT overdog?

I thought FR-S was unbeatable in D?
A) That's awesome circuitmstr!

B) I don't think anyone said Jon's time was unbeatable. His FR-S was a total street car with full interior that was driven to and from the tracks he was setting lap records at, as far as I understand. I mean, I think he actually changed the radio station during his Sebring lap.

You want to talk about "not optimized," I think there was a lot left to be done to his 86...
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #106
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A) That's awesome circuitmstr!

B) I don't think anyone said Jon's time was unbeatable. His FR-S was a total street car with full interior that was driven to and from the tracks he was setting lap records at, as far as I understand. I mean, I think he actually changed the radio station during his Sebring lap.

You want to talk about "not optimized," I think there was a lot left to be done to his 86...
Which is why Emilio keeps saying one that is properly setup and driven is a massive overdog for D
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #107
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Sorry, I meant that everyone in this region considered his time unbeatable.
His car is completely optimized in terms of points, power and weight. Could he remove weight to place the weight more appropriately, yes, and that would help a lot!
At the same time my car is not optimized and is still under development. Neither of us where on stickers either. In fact, I was on a severely flat spotted to the cords right front.

I plan to fatten up my power band and add a gt-250 wing by switching to stock sways and a spring rate change
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #108
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There were people who thought the Socal PTE Rx7s were "unbeatable" too. They all moved to PTD to get away from the Miatas this year
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by circuitmstr74 View Post
Sorry, I meant that everyone in this region considered his time unbeatable.
Gotcha; that makes sense.

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His car is completely optimized in terms of points, power and weight. Could he remove weight to place the weight more appropriately, yes, and that would help a lot!
I'm not sure that it's really fair to say he was optimized in terms of points, but I might be (A) arguing semantics and (B) talking out of my hind quarters since I don't run NASA eventt.

Maybe I should say his car seemed to have a lot left in it in terms of setup and preparation. He was running some pretty basic off-the-shelf BC coilovers as I understand, stock brakes other than pads, not sure on other suspension components (e.g. ARBs), next to no power modifications other than the E85 tune, etc.

Maybe it's just perception, but I see your car and it looks "like a racecar." Then, I see his FR-S and it looks like a nearly stock daily driver (and not a seriously compomised one, either).

Quote:
At the same time my car is not optimized and is still under development. Neither of us where on stickers either. In fact, I was on a severely flat spotted to the cords right front.
That is pretty badass. I'm looking forward to more results.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:33 PM   #110
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I'm not sure that it's really fair to say he was optimized in terms of points, but I might be (A) arguing semantics and (B) talking out of my hind quarters since I don't run NASA eventt.

Maybe I should say his car seemed to have a lot left in it in terms of setup and preparation. He was running some pretty basic off-the-shelf BC coilovers as I understand, stock brakes other than pads, not sure on other suspension components (e.g. ARBs), next to no power modifications other than the E85 tune, etc.

Maybe it's just perception, but I see your car and it looks "like a racecar." Then, I see his FR-S and it looks like a nearly stock daily driver (and not a seriously compomised one, either).
The NASA TT/PT rulebook requires thinking outside the normal racecar box. The rules designate a certain number of points to each modification based on how much the rules creators think that modification helps the average car. To make a really fast car, you have to only take points for the things that actually make a significant laptime difference on your specific chassis.

Aftermarket brake calipers cost points, so for a car that already has decent brakes from the factory, it's best to just use good pads (no points) and not take points for modifying the rest of the system. E85 is no points, so if he can get to his HP limit with stock intake and exhaust, there's no reason for him to change them. Same for the rest of the suspension components... unless the car has terrible suspension geometry or no adjustability from the factory, changing only the shocks and springs for 5 points can often get you 90% of the laptime gain.

I get what you're saying about the car not being "fully optimized." Just pointing out that the NASA rulebook is very different from most other racing rulebooks, and normal racecar modification strategy doesn't really apply a lot of the time.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:45 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
The NASA TT/PT rulebook requires thinking outside the normal racecar box. The rules designate a certain number of points to each modification based on how much the rules creators think that modification helps the average car. To make a really fast car, you have to only take points for the things that actually make a significant laptime difference on your specific chassis.

Aftermarket brake calipers cost points, so for a car that already has decent brakes from the factory, it's best to just use good pads (no points) and not take points for modifying the rest of the system. E85 is no points, so if he can get to his HP limit with stock intake and exhaust, there's no reason for him to change them. Same for the rest of the suspension components... unless the car has terrible suspension geometry or no adjustability from the factory, changing only the shocks and springs for 5 points can often get you 90% of the laptime gain.

I get what you're saying about the car not being "fully optimized." Just pointing out that the NASA rulebook is very different from most other racing rulebooks, and normal racecar modification strategy doesn't really apply a lot of the time.
this
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:06 PM   #112
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10-4; thus my initial caveat about me not running in that series and the perceptions of the cars ("racecar" vs "barely modified daily driver").

Maybe that doesn't mean the 86 is an overdog in waiting and maybe that means the NASA rule system does a good job of parity, but that still has to say something incredibly positive about the 86es that a car with so little modification (and some very good driving) can be close to the top of the lap times lists.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:20 PM   #113
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clearly if someone built one as a purpose built D car with a cage to stiffen the chassis and where able to put the weight where they want it would be much faster...but, bring it on. I still have lots more development to get done before 2014 nationals. Cant wait. lol
I just hope its on the east coast as has been suggested. That way maybe i wont have to compete against sonny or any other fast west coast guys who are obviously very very fast!
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:40 PM   #114
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Bringing this **** back from the dead.

Right & left side net vs halo seat. Halo makes driver egress more difficult unless you remove the vent window. I'm open towing my car so I'd rather not at this point. Left side net is another thing to **** with when you need to get out. I'd imagine nets on both side with a halo seat and the vent window removed would be the best. But absent the vent window removal and halo seat is getting a left side net worth it?
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:30 PM   #115
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How much do you value your safety?

I'd recommend a left side net. You have to think of worst case scenario. If you get into a wreck, your harness will stretch which means your body is flailing around wherever gravity sends it. If the car is tumbling in the air, that/those nets are essentially the only thing(s) keeping your body parts inside the car.

Cheap insurance.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:38 PM   #116
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You're talking about a window net. I'm talking about a left side net, similar to the center/right side net but on the other side of the seat. Grand Am runs em.

Go to :35 sec in, mt.net clobbers the link.

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Old 04-30-2014, 07:32 PM   #117
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Bringing this **** back from the dead.

Right & left side net vs halo seat. Halo makes driver egress more difficult unless you remove the vent window. I'm open towing my car so I'd rather not at this point. Left side net is another thing to **** with when you need to get out. I'd imagine nets on both side with a halo seat and the vent window removed would be the best. But absent the vent window removal and halo seat is getting a left side net worth it?
I've never understood the logic behind "I open tow so I want windows". Do you ever drive your car on the freeway with the windows down? Do you drive it on the track with the windows down? How is towing it with the windows down any different?

Ideal setup is halo + left net + right net + no vent window. Having a halo doesn't let you get away without a left net, since the left net is there primarily to prevent limbs from getting crushed in a rollover accident. Right net is still a good idea with a halo seat since it provides more support in big side impacts, but having said that, I don't use one (although I should).
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:39 PM   #118
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Well I don't leave my windows down when it's raining.

I don't really care if I get wet on track, but towing for a few hours in the rain with nasty road spray getting all over the place makes for a soggy *** all weekend and a seat that smells like mildew.

Also keep in mind I'm talking about the Grand Am style left net, where there is a net next to the seat as well as a traditional window net.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:17 PM   #119
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Well I don't leave my windows down when it's raining.

I don't really care if I get wet on track, but towing for a few hours in the rain with nasty road spray getting all over the place makes for a soggy *** all weekend and a seat that smells like mildew.

Also keep in mind I'm talking about the Grand Am style left net, where there is a net next to the seat as well as a traditional window net.
Window net up = no road spray inside the car. In really awful rainstorms I'll use a big ski jacket or a tarp over the driver's seat. Nothing else gets wet enough to care about.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:52 PM   #120
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Also keep in mind I'm talking about the Grand Am style left net, where there is a net next to the seat as well as a traditional window net.
I don't see any reason for it in a car as small as a miata. I sat in an Ultashield Spec Miata seat (no shoulder wings) this past weekend, and was surprised that I didn't even miss the shoulder wings because my left shoulder was already so close to the door panel. It was in a Spec Miata and he had the factory upper door panel on the left side and a normal right side net on the right, and it was super comfy. My point is, even if your seat does have shoulder wings, they're probably going to hit metal on the left side before a net finishes stretching.

If you're just wanting the left side net to get lateral head containment on both sides, get a Hybrid Pro instead of adding another step to getting out of the car in an emergency.

Last edited by jpreston; 04-30-2014 at 10:03 PM.
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