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Old 02-13-2011, 12:00 PM   #101
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Or buy Megans or Stance or BC Racing...whichever is on sale.
STFU, socialist northerner.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:18 PM   #102
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Seriously, the low speed compression needs to come on faster and then drop off past 3.5"/sec, or just below 0.1 meter. The adjusters do almost nothing.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:53 PM   #103
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:07 PM   #104
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next time keep all the compression and rebound colors the same per application.
QUICK AND DIRTY!

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The adjusters do almost nothing.
It's not obvious on the graphs that DGR posted due to the resolution, but the compression gets softer when you adjust the shocks towards firm.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:26 PM   #105
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While I don't dogmatically follow anyone's advice, I think Dennis had it right. There are other decent shocks out there now, but low-buck Taiwanese stuff isn't it.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html

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Remember this list:

* Bilstein
* Penske
* Koni
* Ohlins
* Sachs
* Dynamic Suspension

Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.

(The reason why JRZ and Moton aren't on the "good" list is simple - I never dynoed any. In the absence of any dyno information one way or the other, I choose to remain silent.)

Perhaps I should elaborate a little.

For a while, I was the shock engineer for a race team, and was designing, building, and rebuilding shock packages for customers. A big part of this service was running customer shocks on the dyno to set a baseline for where they were currently at. I dynoed a couple of hundred shocks, representing the spread of almost every shock brand extant.

(All the shock dyno plots on this page came off my dyno.)

Amazingly, save those brands mentioned in that earlier list, this was a non-stop parade of horror, including, but not limited to:

1. Adjusters that did absolutely nothing;
2. Adjusters that had more crosstalk effect than they had primary effect (ie, a rebound adjuster where 1 click made a 10% change in rebound and a 30% change in compression);
3. Adjusters that were nonlinear and exponential;
4. Adjusters that peaked in the middle of the adjustment range (in one example, "full hard" was softer than "full soft");

5. Shimstacks assembled upside-down;
6. Sets of shocks where a front and rear shimstack had been exchanged;
7. Shocks valved with forces that were insane (1600 lbs/in @ 3 in/sec was the record);
8. Shocks that faded so fast (as they warmed up) that no two runs were ever alike;
9. Shocks with adjusters that varied by 10% on the same shock at the same setting, depending on if you got there by going harder or softer; and
10. Shocks that adjusted rebound and compression in lockstep, but had so much compression that backing them down to reasonable levels made rebound way too soft (very common with the Japanese brands like GAB, JIC, Tein, etc)

The only shock brands I worked with that actually did what they said they would do were the shocks on that list - and even then, they had their quirks:
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:36 PM   #106
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I plugged the numbers onto a run for Showa OE 1999 front and rears dampers. Note: Lines are drawn by me as a representation of the graph on M.net and are at 25 clicks as that's where is started to make a difference to the stiffness.

Green: Street, Front
Orange: Track, Front
Blue: The level of damping I'd expect for a 350/250 set-up

The important thing here is rate. Bump rate is too flat, and not enough stiffness. Rebound rate is quite stiff, no blow-off whatsoever although I'd like to see a 0-6 in/sec range though. Bump/Rebound ratio is very high.

Phil
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File Type: pdf DGR vs OE.pdf (8.6 KB, 207 views)
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #107
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Data going off chart doesn't help....


here:




now you can see the blow-off much better than oem or tein.
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DGR Coilovers - Anybody got their hands on these yet?-shock_dynos.jpg  
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:34 PM   #108
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I was looking through some old posts, and the dyno plots for the DGRs look an awful lot like the old plots for the fortune-auto coilovers that rspeed introduced a couple years back.

Not averaged though:



Anyone else notice that?
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:38 PM   #109
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yes, I already noticed that.


they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings.

FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:40 PM   #110
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they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings.
And the vendor's response is usually "but our product is like nothing else on the market! we're exclusive!" when you call them on it.

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FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs.
I feel the same way about my racelands, but they're still getting kicked to the curb in favor of Bilsteins.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:42 PM   #111
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Let's see how they look and perform and last IF they are in fact different from the generics that keep getting rebranded and internet marketed across the Webz…

I mean…there is more to developing a coilover than deciding on a new color and company name.

Last edited by sjmarcy; 02-15-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:11 PM   #112
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I mean…there is more to developing a coilover than deciding on a new color and company name.
Not in China
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:14 PM   #113
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Not in China
So…what colors remain available?
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:22 PM   #114
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IIRC, you can order custom colored coilovers from Ground Control!
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #115
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k-sport:

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Old 02-15-2011, 07:31 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yes, I already noticed that.


they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings.

FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs.
this ^^^^^ for all the dyno plots in the world cannot describe exactly how they will feel in the real world. i have some cheap taiwan crap shocks, but they were 6 sec. faster at a track i had run alot in nearly exact same track conditions. and on 9/6k springs, they ride soooo much better than my old kyb agx on qa1 350/250 springs. they aren't perfect (obviously, they're taiwan) but for the money there wasn't anything close in price. i thought about bc back in '09, but i don't think they had a kit for na, just nb, although they probably would have worked anyway. also they were similar in $$ to the D2's i bought, but i was able to order the D2's through a distributor of ours at a ridiculously cheap price, and they sent me a second set of springs to try for free so i couldn't pass them up. i tracked them all year and will again this year, and they have held up so far. if i had the money i would just get the xida's. i don't believe i'll gain much of anything going to bc, tein, etc.. a friend has stance and they seemed okay, but there were a couple issues with them, which they replaced without a hassle, but they didn't feel any better than mine, and were more harsh on the small bumps (hi speed valving)
sorry for the rant, point is, you can have a fun time without resorting to $4k coilover's and in-house shock dyno's.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:44 PM   #117
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i have some cheap taiwan crap shocks, but they were 6 sec. faster at a track i had run alot in nearly exact same track conditions. and on 9/6k springs...... kyb agx on qa1 350/250 springs.
I think I've identified why you went 6 seconds faster.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:01 PM   #118
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I think I've identified why you went 6 seconds faster.


Your track must be a lot different. If I could drop 6 seconds just by changing to cheap china coilovers from kyb agx, I'd be all over it. But I highly doubt it's possible in my case. 6 seconds is huge.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:32 PM   #119
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spoolin2bars speaks the truth.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #120
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What time did he get with just changing the shocks and what is the spec miata record at that track?
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