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Old 12-07-2010, 09:44 AM   #101
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So Brain, why are you too good to drive a car with Racelands? you were offered.
I am too good for that cracker-jack ****.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:50 AM   #102
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I am too good for that cracker-jack ****.
ya got any new news?
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:54 AM   #103
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So Brain, why are you too good to drive a car with Racelands? you were offered.
Cause I'm not driving 4-5 hours one way just to ride on some $5 inserts.

Even if they do feel "acceptable," while they last:

I dont like the dampening curves.
I don't like how under dampened they are at low-speed, they probably feel less responsive and allow more body roll than the same spring rates under a better shock with better curves under 2 in/sec.
I don't like how they increase dampening in a linear fashion, that suggests they will be harsh on the street where the high-speed dampening comes into play. Or maybe the reason you are saying they aren't is because at those speeds they are acutally dampened enough for your spring rates.
I don't like how the rears have less dampening than stock.
I don't like how there is a lot of hysteresis recorded on the dynos, suggesting the shock doesn't come back on the same curve it went out.
I don't like the fact that they use cheap inserts.
I don't like that there are recorded failures; I refuse to chalk it up to poor installation, they are failing regardless.
I don't like that you need to change the rear spring once you get them because Raceland used Honda Civic springs for them, just swapping the F/R.
I don't like that it appears that in order to get suspension travel out of them you need to install ISC racing tophats otherwise the bumpstop is under compression at 12.5" rear ride height with stock mounts.
I don't like how the weld for the lower eyelet looks precarious.


I do like how cheap they are
I do like that they have threaded bodies

Last edited by Braineack; 12-07-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:31 AM   #104
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I do not like them in a box.
I do not like them with a fox.
I do not like them in a house.
I do not like them with a mouse.
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam I am.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:38 AM   #105
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Now if they were free, and drove more comfortably than my konis currently, and i just installed them before my teins arrived...then I'd like them.

Its fine if you still think the cost outweighs all the negatives. They works for you, you are happy. That's great, but I wouldn't feel great about having them and hoping they last....or hoping my left shock was within 50 lbs of the right. I'm getting Tein Flexes because I'm getting a good deal for them...are they the most ideal shock kit out there, no. But I'm going to be happy with this compromise over my current.

I'm sure Hustler will point out all the negatives of flexes over the xidas, but for me they will suffice.

Last edited by Braineack; 12-07-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:04 AM   #106
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I'm sure Hustler will point out all the negavtive of flexes over the xidas, but for me they will suffice.
The oil in the Flex contain a carcinogen, constructed by socialist foreigners. However it's a "lifestyle damper".
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:07 AM   #107
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The oil in the Flex contain a carcinogen, constructed by socialist foreigners. However it's a "lifestyle damper".

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:10 AM   #108
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What suspension setup will out preform racelands for the same cost on a daily drivin miata + lower it enough to make 13" wheels not look ridiculous? was looking into buying the racelands because my stock 120k mile stuff has about had it and i didnt want to spend more then maybe 500 bucks. However the dyno results and what was found inside the sleeves does not appeal to me.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:12 AM   #109
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You would need to go used konis or illuminas with OBX springs/sleeves. That would be close and should be under your spending cap. they also wont fail on you.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:39 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Cause I'm not driving 4-5 hours one way just to ride on some $5 inserts.

Even if they do feel "acceptable," while they last:

I dont like the dampening curves.
I don't like how under dampened they are at low-speed, they probably feel less responsive and allow more body roll than the same spring rates under a better shock with better curves under 2 in/sec.
I don't like how they increase dampening in a linear fashion, that suggests they will be harsh on the street where the high-speed dampening comes into play. Or maybe the reason you are saying they aren't is because at those speeds they are acutally dampened enough for your spring rates.
I don't like how the rears have less dampening than stock.
I don't like how there is a lot of hysteresis recorded on the dynos, suggesting the shock doesn't come back on the same curve it went out.
I don't like the fact that they use cheap inserts.
I don't like that there are recorded failures; I refuse to chalk it up to poor installation, they are failing regardless.
I don't like that you need to change the rear spring once you get them because Raceland used Honda Civic springs for them, just swapping the F/R.
I don't like that it appears that in order to get suspension travel out of them you need to install ISC racing tophats otherwise the bumpstop is under compression at 12.5" rear ride height with stock mounts.
I don't like how the weld for the lower eyelet looks precarious.


I do like how cheap they are
I do like that they have threaded bodies
I remember you trying to tell me you were going to get the Racelands. Those were the good ol days.


Here is my awesome suggestion:

Find out what damper size fits in them that has the damping characteristics you want and install it. Then you have a set of threaded body coilovers for the cost of racelands plus the cost of inserts.

I did the insert trick on my old AllTrac:









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Old 12-07-2010, 11:49 AM   #111
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The problem with inserts is finding one with the correct length shaft and the right size threads for a Miata without going past the price for a set of Bilsteins or Illuminas. Considering that NA or NB Bilsteins will run $450 the odds aren't looking too good. Getting into high quality monotube inserts you might as well just step up to revalved Billies or Xidas.

Last edited by wannafbody; 12-07-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:52 AM   #112
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WTF does the "thread size of the shaft" have anything to do with this?

hardware is cheap, drill the damn hats....your gonna do it for Koni's anyway.

sorry dude, but you need to open the top of your box. Many, many parts can fit in this application. Just because some vendor makes it easy for you. Doesn't mean it's an unpossible task.
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:12 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I don't like how under dampened they are at low-speed, they probably feel less responsive and allow more body roll than the same spring rates under a better shock with better curves under 2 in/sec.
That is probably the case, yeah. I can verify that they're okay for trackdays (objectively they're faster than my FM / KYB setup) but suck at autocross slaloms (the front tends to jack down and you start to lose the rear by about the 4th cone)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Or maybe the reason you are saying they aren't is because at those speeds they are acutally dampened enough for your spring rates.
Pretty much this. My understanding is that you don't need huge high-speed shock forces once the natural frequencies get up over 2Hz or so. Looking at that critical damping chart i made, they pretty much flat-line around 40% critical (aside from front rebound), which is adequate (assuming Dennis Grant isin't lying to me) for high speed damping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I don't like that it appears that in order to get suspension travel out of them you need to install ISC racing tophats otherwise the bumpstop is under compression at 12.5" rear ride height with stock mounts.
Are you thinking of the photos that I took of the front suspension? The 2" raceland bumpstops as supplied with the kit don't contact until 11" rear ride height.
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:18 PM   #114
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yeah, your pics...thought that was the rear:

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Old 12-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #115
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yeah, your pics...thought that was the rear:
Aha! The only pic I have of the rear is an old one with the stupid coil-binding QA1 springs:

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That's at 12.5" ride height, and you can see there's a good inch of shock travel before it contacts the stop.
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:58 PM   #116
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Old 12-07-2010, 03:58 PM   #117
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that's not bad at all there. about what I see.

that's why i had asked about the lengths earlier...i though they were the rears so i was confused.
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:11 PM   #118
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I'm too good for last place.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:14 PM   #119
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90R, this is just too funny. Your Ricleands aren't controlling your 275# or 390# springs.

B_ING- I'd suggest you buy a vowel.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:16 PM   #120
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Quote:
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90R, this is just too funny. Your Ricleands aren't controlling your 275# or 390# springs.

B_ING- I'd suggest you buy a vowel.
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