Sudden rough running [resolved] - Page 18 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-15-2009, 01:07 PM   #341
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Haven't had much to post as I am waiting for my new unit (possibly arriving today) but I did make one significant observation. A while back I had commented that occasionally I would get a sudden cut or break while driving - super short and it always came right back. It was just a hiccup. It would ususally happen once a day. I think ZX mentioned that it had happened to him as well.

Since going to Rising Edge instead of Falling Edge on Trigger 1, I have never had the hiccup. I think that it had something to do with the falling edge trigger being "missed" as some has said might be the case. So, I'm a firm believer in Rising Edge.

On another note, since I richened it up to compensate for my frozen trim on hot stars, I rarely die. All that I did was tune idle cells to yield a 14.5 idle when hot and trim frozen at 3. Sure, it is just a stopgap and I'm really rich when cold but at least I don't die at every stoplight. Now it's down to once a day. Getting me by until the new unit is in :crosses fingers:
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:36 PM   #342
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Good to hear switching to rising edge made things better. Hopefully that new unit will correct your trim problem. Hang in there, ECU bliss will be yours soon.

You richened to 14.5? Wow... I can only idle that lean if the A/C is on. Otherwise to keep things stable I need to be in the 12-13 range. I have pretty much given up on idling them much leaner than that. It was the same way with my MS.

I am still declaring victory BTW. I have been driving it all week in all types of conditions and it is still running great. I took a couple of buddies for rides to demonstrate the new power output level. They liked it

Mostly I have been playing around with EBC, and making AFR corrections. I'm still tweaking the idle settings. It works very well once the car is warmed up a bit but the cold start stability is still not completely there. It is good enough for now though.

I'll try to get that EBC how-to posted up this weekend.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:29 AM   #343
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Installed the new Adaptronic today.
































Fail.

Doing the exact same thing, so the issue must be on my end somewhere. Trim still freezes at either 3 or 4, regardless of RPM or AFR.

One thing that I think might be a contributing problem is that the IAT really isnt changing much. I sat and idled in the garage for 20 minutes. It started at water and air at 16* ambient. When I shut it down it was 102* water and 19* IAT. I can't imagine that is right. It had to put more heat into the intake charge than that. I had been running with the hood closed the whole time.

EDIT: I just checked it again after sitting for 5 minutes and IAT is up to 27* so I guess it is working OK. So, maybe my Correction for Air Temp is just off that far. I used the settings from y8s. That said, the Trim is still frozen regardless of AFR or RPM. I even tried to jack up the idle cell of the tuning to 11 and 12 AFR and the trim, which should go down stayed at 3. When I moved it way lean, it still stayed at 3. When I was first warming the car up and I was playing with idle cells the trim would move to compensate for what I was inputting in the idle range cells.

So, I'm at a loss...
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:21 AM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post

Fail.

Doing the exact same thing, so the issue must be on my end somewhere. Trim still freezes at either 3 or 4, regardless of RPM or AFR.

One thing that I think might be a contributing problem is that the IAT really isnt changing much. I sat and idled in the garage for 20 minutes. It started at water and air at 16* ambient. When I shut it down it was 102* water and 19* IAT. I can't imagine that is right. It had to put more heat into the intake charge than that. I had been running with the hood closed the whole time.

EDIT: I just checked it again after sitting for 5 minutes and IAT is up to 27* so I guess it is working OK. So, maybe my Correction for Air Temp is just off that far. I used the settings from y8s. That said, the Trim is still frozen regardless of AFR or RPM. I even tried to jack up the idle cell of the tuning to 11 and 12 AFR and the trim, which should go down stayed at 3. When I moved it way lean, it still stayed at 3. When I was first warming the car up and I was playing with idle cells the trim would move to compensate for what I was inputting in the idle range cells.

So, I'm at a loss...
Sorry to hear the news.

Here's a suggestion: transfer Tex's calibration to your car and fiddle with it by using only your fuel map and ignition map. For every other setting, use Tex's numbers.

I'm not sure if the Adaptronic is similar to the AEM but I was able to lick some significant issues with my setup by using a lot of settings from Lazzer (he was kind enough to send me a copy; thanks Jeff ).

Does the Adaptronic have a feature that allows the user to compare calibrations?

FWIW, I think you're not too far from licking it. It has to be something minor in your install.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:36 AM   #345
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john, did you look at the calculation trace for fuel trim while it was idling with the fixed trim value? it should be obvious there I'd think...?
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:36 AM   #346
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Wow holy **** I stay away from the adaptronic (and this section) for a few weeks and you guys put up so much info my head is spinning. Its 4:30am as I'm typing this, I just re-read every thread in this section since I plan to start working on my miata this upcoming week and get it tuned/running properly. Finally cleaned up all my connections and all other bullshit today, so Its on to tuning I suppose.

This thread though, its got my head spinning. I'll have to re-read it again when I wake up tomorrow to understand it better (in 6 hours lol).......

I have not driven idled my car long enough yet to experience any of this "rough running" you guys are talking about....Ever since the day I got it to idle and took it for a spin on stock injectors for like 2 blocks I shut er down due to bad wbo2 connection to the adaptronic (was reading 18 no matter what when the gauge was actually working/showing real afr's) and havent worked on her since due to subaru project/work....... It has been high 90's low 100's here in california for the past week or so, so if anything my car will experience this problem faster than all you yours.

The last map that I had loaded into the adap was Steins stock injector/8psi map. never got to tuning it past idle, which I got it to do really well actually.

Can you guys PLEASE post up links to the latest/greatest wari/files you are using? If someone can send me their map (Stein, ZxTex?) I would apreciate it a lot.
I know I sound like an idiot, but half the **** you guys posted in this thread went right over my head, and I want to start off with the latest map/settings available. Not trying to get spoonfed, but I am THAT challenged and need the help.

I dropped in my rx7 460's fresh from DW cleaning/testing, so I assume the cranking/fuel trim will have to be re-adjusted? Running regular plug wires no cops yet.

Travis I know you sent me the info on this but somehow it got deleted. When you guys get a chance if someone could send me the latest updated "settings" map that would be awesome.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:05 AM   #347
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Here is my latest ECU file. The usual caveats apply:
1. This is for 550cc high impedance injectors. The current settings are at maximum current flow so they will probably damage low impedance injectors.
2. I added 5 degrees of master trim timing as a test. You may not need this.
3. I'm still working on the idle settings. They work when the car is warm, but are erratic on cold starts.
4. In general go through and check the settings.
Attached Files
File Type: zip rising-edge-8 mbc tune 2.zip (2.0 KB, 39 views)
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:26 AM   #348
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:12 PM   #349
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John, Give me a call if you need to. We should be able to track it down in the window under help---->Calculations---->Fuel trim Tab... I checked over your settings, and didn't see anything but there are alot fo settings so...
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:37 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Here is my latest ECU file. The usual caveats apply:
1. This is for 550cc high impedance injectors. The current settings are at maximum current flow so they will probably damage low impedance injectors.
2. I added 5 degrees of master trim timing as a test. You may not need this.
3. I'm still working on the idle settings. They work when the car is warm, but are erratic on cold starts.
4. In general go through and check the settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Excellent. You guys ******* ROCK

Now I'll at least be on the same page settings wise. By low impedance do you mean low ohm? I have rx7 460's so they should be high impedance (ohm) right?

Anywho, I'll try to get some logs this week and see if I can be of any help to you guys.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:10 PM   #351
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Yeah I think the RX7 460s are high impedance. To be sure, measure the resistance across the injector pins. It should be about 12-13 Ohms.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:36 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Yeah I think the RX7 460s are high impedance. To be sure, measure the resistance across the injector pins. It should be about 12-13 Ohms.
They are high impedance Vlad.
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:59 PM   #353
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Since going to Rising Edge instead of Falling Edge on Trigger 1, I have never had the hiccup.
Mine still has the hiccup with both triggers set to Rising Edge. Did you set Trigger 2 to rising edge too?
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:26 PM   #354
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Yeah I set them both to rising edge.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:06 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by sv650_ck View Post
Mine still has the hiccup with both triggers set to Rising Edge. Did you set Trigger 2 to rising edge too?
Yes. My #2 was already there from before. But both are rising now.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:12 AM   #356
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A slight hiccup could be a decel or acel enrichment problem, or just a bad AFR for maybe a 1/4 of a second could do it. How well tuned is the car?
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:18 AM   #357
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A slight hiccup could be a decel or acel enrichment problem, or just a bad AFR for maybe a 1/4 of a second could do it. How well tuned is the car?
I don't know if his hiccup is the same as mine. Mine would happen on steady acceleration even with good AFRs. Once I changed to Rising on both I have NEVER had it again.

I didn't get any time to work on the car Sunday. I don't think my problem is the ECU as the problem is still there. I'll give you a call tonight and we can walk through it. If it isn't the ECU, I'll get the new one headed back your way.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:48 PM   #358
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so I was idling my car this evening...


... which is a god damn miracle!


ok so this is the longest its run since I dont know when. weeks ago. course I been in belgium and whatnot, but still.

part of the issue was the questionable TechEdge wideband. It was old and didnt support the serial protocol so I upgraded it to the latest serial protocol and hoped for the best but it never seemed to function properly. Whatever.

So I picked up an LC1 (I've been wanting a gauge so it was easy to justify paying too much!) and wired it in a few times before I finally got it working properly (yeah yeah) but it conveniently used my same WBO2 sensor so I plugged it up and and hooked up the rest and set my triggers both to Rising Edge and turned the key...

and it started right up.

granted it died after the post start enrichment quit because the main fuel map was way lean but since I had a new WBO2 in there, I just pgup the **** out of it and watch the AFR drop. cranked it again and it kept running smooth as silk.

so I played around with the map a little but basically... it's running and over 10-15 minutes it didn't die or do anything weird. so that's good.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:46 PM   #359
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UPDATE:

Frozen trim fixed! Travis found it.

Under Corrections>Fuel control>set closed loop parameters>Delay before closed loop (sec) was set to 90. He had me reset it to 0 and I got my idle trim back on a hot restart.

Now I just need to go through and redo my idle tuning as I had so many masking changes made to at least get it to run that need to be undone but at least I should be back on track.

Unfortunately I'm leaving town tomorrow but then I have a three day weekend to get this thing whipped, so I'll take the small accomplishment.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:18 AM   #360
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so does that mean all three of us are golden now? very exciting.

I did minutes and minutes and minutes of idling and rapid learning this evening and aside from a little aggressiveness on the part of the rapid learn setting (oscillation from overcorrecting), it was like BUTTER.

And I only threw a VTCS voltage error code. Not sure what I'm'a do with that one.

if the "Time" unit is straight up seconds, I guess I did a 50 minute datalog. It's just over a meg. Never once did it die or do anything totally confusing. At least not after getting the fuel map richened up to something useful.

check it out. you can see me start it a few times and nail the post-post start fuel after a few tries. you can see the rapid learning cause AFR oscillation. you can see me jab the gas a few times to try to get some results from the throttle pump at the end.

http://y8spec.com/adaptronic/logs/2009-19-05_1940.csv
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