Fireindc's attempt to build a decent miata. (the search for more torque). - Page 33 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-07-2014, 02:29 PM   #641
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I just pulled the trigger on an OEM one from Rosenthal.

$140 shipped.

Not under $100, but also not $300+ for a BE one.

Also, I bought a BP4W part number oil pump, hopefully it works on my '94 block. I just ASSumed anything 04-00 would be the same...
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Old 03-07-2014, 02:50 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
I just pulled the trigger on an OEM one from Rosenthal.

$140 shipped.

Not under $100, but also not $300+ for a BE one.

Also, I bought a BP4W part number oil pump, hopefully it works on my '94 block. I just ASSumed anything 04-00 would be the same...
Hmm, that was for an 00-04 part? Should bolt on fine, but you might have gotten a higher flow pump (which is awesome), i read somewhere that ALL 01-04 pumps are higher flow, and the 99-00 part numbers were adjusted with mazda to superceed the old part numbers and the get the higher flow pump as well.

Gonna look into that, $140 for a higher flow pump sounds like a steal.
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Old 03-07-2014, 02:55 PM   #643
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The VVT pumps are higher volume to properly compensate for the added hydraulics needs of the VVT system.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:08 PM   #644
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I think Efini meant that he bought the 94-00 BP4W pump.

The BP4W pump superseded the old part numbers for all earlier Miata BPs

94-00 = BP4W-14-100A
-vs-
01-05 = BP6D-14-100

The 6D pump is just over $300 and the Boundary Street/Strip pump is over $400 IIRC
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:13 PM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
I think Efini meant that he bought the 94-00 BP4W pump.

The BP4W pump superseded the old part numbers for all earlier Miata BPs

94-00 = BP4W-14-100A
-vs-
01-05 = BP6D-14-100

The 6D pump is just over $300 and the Boundary Street/Strip pump is over $400 IIRC
That would make more sense, as that more closely matches the pricing i saw for the bp6d pump. Also, you can get the "street" be pump for $300.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:38 PM   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
That would make more sense, as that more closely matches the pricing i saw for the bp6d pump. Also, you can get the "street" be pump for $300.
Nice! I hadn't seen the BE street pump. I really wonder what the functional difference is between them all. Is there hard flow/volume data out there for the BE pumps or is it more of a longevity/durability thing? I've been lead to believe its the latter, but I could be wrong.

I'm probably in the minority but I don't believe most of us actually need the BE pump. We aren't pushing past the stock redline and we aren't running at peak power for sprint races or long *** enduro sessions. Of course, $300-$400 for the BE is as they say "cheap insurance" $3,000 built motor.

I bought a SuperMiata damper for my engine with the 6D pump. Hopefully this will be "enough" for my shenanigans. Becausestreetcar
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:58 PM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Nice! I hadn't seen the BE street pump. I really wonder what the functional difference is between them all. Is there hard flow/volume data out there for the BE pumps or is it more of a longevity/durability thing? I've been lead to believe its the latter, but I could be wrong.

I'm probably in the minority but I don't believe most of us actually need the BE pump. We aren't pushing past the stock redline and we aren't running at peak power for sprint races or long *** enduro sessions. Of course, $300-$400 for the BE is as they say "cheap insurance" $3,000 built motor.

I bought a SuperMiata damper for my engine with the 6D pump. Hopefully this will be "enough" for my shenanigans. Becausestreetcar
Pretty much my thoughts at this point. If i was going with an all out build, there would be NO question in my mind that the BE pump is worth every cent. However in my case, this build should come out to ~1k all said and done, so a $300 pump would increase my budget for the build by a good 30%. Plus if something goes horribly wrong and i toast the motor, it's likely i'll toast the $$$ pump as well. I sprung for ARP studs, because if i DO toast this motor those can easily be swapped to another block. Rods were dirt cheap, and everything else is going to be standard oem parts pretty much.

Now, i'm going to get me an OEM oil pump, the DNJ/ITM parts are fine I'm sure.. and i would not hesitate to use them in a stock motor, but i just want the peace of mind for my build at this point. OEM pump it is, now to hunt down the best price.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:11 PM   #648
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Sounds like someone needs to join MazdaComp

(I'm a slacker and have not done it yet either, but I'm sure someone can look it up and get the pricing)
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:28 PM   #649
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The pump I got is not the VVT pump, as mentioned it is ~$300 from Rosenthal.

I also struggled on the BE Street pump vs. new OEM vs. Rock Auto vs. re-using 150k mile stock pump decision.

My engine build is now well past the 18psi rods only method, and my original budget and intent has changed. I still have trouble swallowing the $300 plus for the BE pump and am hoping the new OEM pump will suffice for this first build. I'm not planning on tracking the car with this engine, at least not regularly, and I'm not planning on running 400hp so HOPEFULLY the OEM pump is ok.

Hopefully

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Old 03-07-2014, 09:25 PM   #650
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Put items in shopping cart.
Get liquor in your system.
Play loud music.
Run a little more liquor down in you.
Buy parts you can't decide on.
Profit???


That's Erat's method.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:34 PM   #651
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HA

I've done that more than once
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:34 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
Put items in shopping cart.
Get liquor in your system.
Play loud music.
Run a little more liquor down in you.
Buy parts you can't decide on.
Profit???

That's Erat's method.
Mine is to look at items late at night after a long day of work. Common sense goes out the damn window at 4 am. Justification and rationalization is a bitch, especially with PayPal.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:49 AM   #653
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LOL, love you guys. I try to make my purchases with logic, does not always work.

Anyways so far my parts list that I HAVE sitting here ready to go:

CHINA rods w/ arp hardware
KING main/rod/thrust bearings
Chromoly rings ("premium" rock auto)
ARP headstuds/mainstuds
MLS felpro headgasket
Gates blue timing belt
OEM mazda BP4W oil pump
A bunch of misc engine seals

So pretty much ready to start ******' **** up on this bottom end. I have a few questions for you guys,

#1 is there a specific brand plasti-gauge I should get that is better than others? What did you guys use, and would you use it again?

#2 assembly lube, what kind?

#3 should I install ARP hardware for my initial torquing to get clearance #'s, or should I use the oem stuff and then use the ARP on final assembly?

#4 ANY other tips for me? First bottom end i've ever attempted to build. My dads gonna help, and he has experience with this so I'm not too worried. I know i should clean the everliving **** out of EVERYTHING which is going to be my first step.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:21 PM   #654
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Sand blasting is your enemy, steam/jet cleaning is your friend.

I use whatever assembly lube is available, as long as it's marketed for engine assembly. Be ready to change the oil in ~50 miles.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:58 PM   #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Sand blasting is your enemy, steam/jet cleaning is your friend.

I use whatever assembly lube is available, as long as it's marketed for engine assembly. Be ready to change the oil in ~50 miles.
No steam cleaner unfortunately, certainly WON'T be using the sand blaster for this. I plan on using a ton of degreaser and my power washer while the engine is on the stand to prevent contamination.

Pistons i figure i can scrub with a nylon brush and degreaser or something else. Should I try to polish any minor imperfections in the skirts, etc? Crank looks so perfect I'm not even going to try to polish it or anything.

Do you typically plasti-gauge your builds, or go blind? What brand plastigauge do you use?

Thx <3
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:05 PM   #656
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It might be worth paying a few bucks to get a machine shop to hot-tank the block for you.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:18 PM   #657
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Quote:
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It might be worth paying a few bucks to get a machine shop to hot-tank the block for you.
You know.. it would, if i didn't live in the boonies. Getting to a machine shop with a hot tank is going to be a 300 mile round trip, which really is not in the bag for me right now (time = money).
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:22 PM   #658
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Good point, didn't realize that wasn't exactly an option. I guess all that beautiful high desert comes with a cost. Totally worth that cost though
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:24 PM   #659
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Good point, didn't realize that wasn't exactly an option. I guess all that beautiful high desert comes with a cost. Totally worth that cost though
Yeah, it really does come at a cost. I agree it's worth it, though. I know there is a local machine shop here (i'd NEVER trust them for any real work), but maybe they have a hot tank I could use..

Not a bad idea, thanks.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:00 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireindc View Post
No steam cleaner unfortunately, certainly WON'T be using the sand blaster for this. I plan on using a ton of degreaser and my power washer while the engine is on the stand to prevent contamination.

Pistons i figure i can scrub with a nylon brush and degreaser or something else. Should I try to polish any minor imperfections in the skirts, etc? Crank looks so perfect I'm not even going to try to polish it or anything.

Do you typically plasti-gauge your builds, or go blind? What brand plastigauge do you use?

Thx <3
Use brake parts cleaner to remove any residue from the degreaser or anything else. The stuff is great for small nooks and crannies because it will evaporate away totally.
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