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Mobius 10-24-2011 07:18 PM

Mobius's Build - Brotrex and Bromex galore!
 
2 Attachment(s)
We are starting with this. About 6psi, about 165 whp, non-intercooled. Goal is 200whp, track-day worry free.

Purchased and on the way:
a) xede + 550 injectors

b) intercooler: 28x7x2.5 tube&fin ebay special. Black, because I don't like to advertise http://www.ebay.com/itm/28-x-7-x2-5-BLACK-FMIC-TUBE-AND-FIN-FRONT-MOUNT-TURBO-INTERCOOLER-HONDA-/250900064221?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &vxp=mtr&hash=item3a6acf27dd

c) some 2" piping. Compressor --> intercooler will run through the hole behind driver's headlight. 2" on the way to the intercooler since my compressor outlet is 2", I already have some miscellaneous 2" bits, and it will thread through the hole better.

d) FM's intercooler outlet hose, fewer hose clamps = win. I will probably use the middle of my existing crossover pipe to connect between the intercooler outlet hose and the 90 elbow to the throttle body. I won't be needing that pipe, don't know who would want to buy it, and it's got the attachment for my IAT already.

e) FM's crossflow radiator. This will be mated with a 2/3 Cobra's fan shroud and 2 hi-flow Spal fans that I've had for a while waiting to install.

When this is all put together I'll start on ducting. Then I'll figure out where to put the oil cooler.

Savington 10-24-2011 08:13 PM

Why FM's radiator over ours?

Mobius 10-24-2011 08:55 PM

I have fans and a shroud already which will bolt up to the FM unit, and I save weight vs the TrackSpeed unit both in radiator weight and coolant weight.

I would have gotten yours, if I knew for sure I needed it. The FM radiator plus the shroud and fans I have will be tons more effective than stock, and should be enough for my needs for several years.

The TrackSpeed radiator looks to be an awesome piece of kit. If I hadn't already had on hand the shroud and fans I may have ended up with it instead. But since I have them, that's the way I went.

curly 10-24-2011 09:51 PM

There's a place to save weight on.

Sav, you need to realize that in order to sell you're going to have to buy a bunch of FM decals and put them on your radiator.

In all honesty he probably doesn't need it though, as long as he doesn't expect to race July-August.

Mobius 10-24-2011 10:23 PM

I would like to track July/August. We'll see. If this one proves insufficient I'll happily replace it with a TrackSpeed unit and sell the FM one.

If I wasn't already into for 300 for shrouds + fans I would have done it. I know Emilio likes the TrackSpeed unit, and that's all the recommendation I need. If both Andrew and Emilio like something I call it done.

Savington 10-25-2011 03:04 AM

Gotcha. No hard feelings or anything. ;) Just curious.

Does FM publish a weight with water for their unit? I know ours is identical to a Koyo55 including water weight, despite being an inch thicker at the endtank.

Mobius 10-25-2011 07:10 PM

I haven't seen a weight. But it's a 32mm core, so I would imagine it's less than a Koyo or PWR 37mm. Keith mentions the core thickness here: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/in...?topic=21653.0

Mobius 11-02-2011 12:41 AM

Radiator has arrived, I'll post pics and weight (dry) tomorrow. I have also received the 99-00 head gasket, as I have decided to go ahead and do the reroute.

Question. I've decided to install a ball valve on my heater core supply. For normal driving and for warmup that will be open and heater core will see coolant flow as normal. Once warmed up for track duty I will close that valve, thus forcing all coolant through the reroute and through the radiator, and no warm coolant entering the mixing manifold. Have I missed anything that makes this a bad idea? The ball valve I have selected is 3/8" full port stainless. I looked at using a 1/2", but the area did not seem appreciably bigger (there was no cross-sectional difference on the 5/8" hose --> NPT adapters for 3/8 and 1/2"), while the physical size of the valves was quite different. So I went with the smaller one.

I have also ordered a delicious dish of TSE Brake Prawns. 2nd question - with my soon-to-be excellent ducting, on a 2500lb car with stock sport brakes at 200hp, am I going to get away with XP8's? That's what I've got on the car now. I used them at my last naturally aspirated track day, but that wasn't any kind of a brake heat test since it was 60degF ambient and raining.

curly 11-02-2011 01:16 AM

You'll be fine until you're really racing competitively. ORP is soft on brakes, PIR is a little tougher, with two big braking zones at T1 and T10. Once you get better though, 10 gets easier on brakes, although T1 gets harder I'd say.

The only real issue is you'll be throwing half your pads away due to taper.

Mobius 11-16-2011 10:57 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Progress.

I have not measured the wet weight of the FM radiator. Dry it is 10.8 pounds.

Miscellaneous silicone connectors I need for the rotrex --> intercooler tubing arrived today. Hopefully I will have that routed tomorrow, along with the minor surgery to the power steering cooler hoses to get around the edge of the intercooler.

Xede is installed. 550cc injectors going in tomorrow.

Mobius 12-19-2011 07:34 PM

8 Attachment(s)
I/C plumbing is finalized and installed. 550cc injectors and xede are installed. Engine has been started but car is still on blocks.

The compressor outlet feeds into:

--> existing silicone elbow piece
--> existing aluminum 60* joiner with the 1" port for the bypass valve hose.
--> 60* silicone elbow
--> 90* aluminum J-pipe which feeds down through the hole behind driver's headlight
--> 45* silicone elbow
--> aluminum pipe joiner
--> 90* sillicone elbow
--> aluminum joiner
--> then to the intercooler via a 2" to 2.5" silicone reducer.

On the intercooler outlet side:

--> FM intercooler outlet hose
--> 6" section of Kraftwerks crossover pipe w/IAT bung
--> 90* silicone elbow to throttle body.

Summary of pieces I used for the new intake plumbing. All new pieces were from Silicone Intakes; I/C is 28x7x2.5 ebay.

PIECES I KEPT FROM KRAFTWERKS
Pre-rotrex plumbing
* all pre-rotrex intake plumbing
Post-rotrex plumbing
* 90* rotrex outlet silicone elbow
* the 45* or 60* aluminum joiner with the 1" outlet for the bypass valve hose
* the bypass valve, hose, etc. All of that is untouched.
* the part of the crossover tube with the IAT bung
NEW PIECES
Pre-Rotrex Plumbing:
none
Post-Rotrex Plumbing:
* 60" silicone elbow
* 90* J-pipe (I cut it to fit from a larger 90* piece as Silicone Intakes didn't have a Jpipe)
* 45* silicone elbow
* aluminum pipe joiner
* 90* silicone elbow
* aluminum pipe joiner
*NOTE: the above 3 pieces could be replaced by one 90" aluminum tubing piece; I used what I had.
* 2" to 2.5" reducer to connect to I/C
* From intercooler: Flyin Miata Intercooler outlet hose
* 2.5" 90* silicone elbow at throttle body.
Modifications made:
* Plastic piece for relays behind driver's headlight : replaced with MSM piece and trimmed to fit (possible to trim existing piece, does not have to be MSM piece)
* Kraftwerks crossover tube: sectioned out the piece with the IAT bung, it is used between FM I/C outlet hose and the 90* elbow to the throttle body. About 6".
* Horn: had to bend the existing bracket somewhat and relocate it to a different bolt a couple of inches away.
* plastic mouth piece: holes cut in sides for I/C tubing. Holes drilled in bottom for the bottom I/C stud bosses to rest in. May put a bolt in there with a fender washer just to make sure the I/C can't move front/back at all.
* fabricated upper radiator mounts - 1/8"x2" bar stock from Home Depot . This was done due to leaning the AC condenser and radiator back using 1/2" spacers on the AC condenser mounts. They were leaned back to give more fore/aft clearance up front for the intercooler. My rotrex oil cooler is still mounted as before on the front of the AC condenser.
* fabricated intercooler mounts - 1/8" x 1" bar stock from Home Depot
* on passenger side, trimmed some sheet metal by the radiator to allow more clearance for rotrex oil hoses in front of A/C condenser. This was not required specifically for this project but was something I had been meaning to do for a while.
* removed hood prop, installed TDR / IL Motorsports hood lifters.
* Power steering hard lines: This was somewhat of a PITA. I ended up only keeping the loop of hard line that mounts under the hood latch. I eliminated the middle part and replaced with hose to clear the intercooler. I tried bending them but was dissatisfied with the results. For anyone else doing this, just go ahead and cut it and re-connect with hose rather than trying to bend them.
On the post-rotrex plumbing all worm drive clamps have been replaced with T-Bolt clamps. On all aluminum tubing that I had to cut to fit, which was most of it, I put on a small lip of JB weld to make sure there's some mechanical grip other than friction for the silicone tubing to grip on to the aluminum tubing. JB weld was the only easy-to-find epoxy I could find that had a high enough rated temperature capacity (600* F) for my liking. Most household epoxies aren't rated above 150*F which is too low inside the engine bay.

For reference the stock radiator brackets are shown in these pictures resting on the ones that I made, to show how far back the radiator moves with a 1/2" spacer on the AC condenser mounts.

Oh ... and please forgive the messy-looking radiator cover, I discovered during the injector leak fun that gasoline is a solvent for Plasti-Dip. So that will be getting repainted with real paint.

Edit: since someone is bound to ask, the radiator is FM's crossflow radiator, with their shroud, and stage 2 spal fans. The drivers fan just barely clears the Power Steering reservoir hardline as is with the 1/2" spacer on the AC condenser mounts. Leaning the radiator farther back would require moving the PS reservoir as well.

I cannot imagine the cursing that would have ensued had I tried to do all of this with the bumper cover still on the car. It only takes about 15 minutes to take it off and can be done by one person if you're careful.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1324341137
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1324341137
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1324341137
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1324341137

Mobius 12-19-2011 07:56 PM

I haz beeyootiful brake ducts
 
8 Attachment(s)
I found these velocity stacks on ebay frrom Ross Machine Racing : Round 2 Inch Velocity Stack RMR-044-2.00 Aluminum 6061 Made USA. I haz mounted them into my foglight holes.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1325183602

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1325183602

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1325183602

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1325183602

I went to my local Tap Plastic and got some 1/4" scrap for $5. I am using the stock foglight screws. I cut 3 squares 3.75" wide, and drilled the mounting holes. Each square has a different size mounting hole for the velocity stack cut with a holesaw: 3", 3.25", and 2.25". The 3" hole needs to be a precise fit, as it's the one visible from the front. The others can have some slop.
Useful to know: the OEM foglight mounting screws are on a 3" square. I printed a grid, and tack-glued it to the back piece as a template (visible in the photo).

I will use some sort of glue to tack the plastic together but allow removal of the stacks if I need to for some reason.

I will be using some of my intercoolor piping scraps to make the joiners between the trumpets and the hose.

Edit: for future searchers NB foglight, foglight brake ducts, brake ducting, foglight ducting, foglight holes

Edit2: 1/4" thick material is the material of choice for doing this. The material depth will line up exactly on the trumpets and the total of 3/4" is just right for the foglight screws.

Mobius 12-22-2011 07:42 PM

Hmm. The photos aren't loading. I can't fix or repost them until next week.

Mobius 12-29-2011 01:36 PM

Links fixed for the foglight brake duct pics.

leatherface24 12-31-2011 08:08 AM

I dig the fog light stacks. Buy the Trackspeed brake ducts...now. Lol Everything looks good so far

Mobius 01-04-2012 10:33 PM


Originally Posted by leatherface24 (Post 813287)
I dig the fog light stacks. Buy the Trackspeed brake ducts...now. Lol Everything looks good so far

I was part of the pre-order group buy. They're installed on the car.

I'm on the short list now for getting the car back on the road. Just need to put the short shifter in, put the hitch in, put the bumper back on, and verify the base tune of the Xede. Spent an unexpected 3 hours today connecting to it to download the current maps; turns out all my usb-->serial converters were crap. Bought the Gigaware one from Radio Shack and all's good.

EO2K 01-31-2012 04:43 PM

Nice! Clean, sanitary and well thought out build. I enjoy finding folks who are moving forward with the Rotrex stuff, gives me a semi. That FM charge pipe is definitely EZ-Mode, adding it to my shopping list now. I appreciate the pics of the routing and the parts list, I'm definitely copying your work. Picked out a pulley yet?

It appears you have quite the cooler stack now. Are these guys all sealed together? My IC is 1' shorter in height, trying to decide if I should push it back against the AC core or lean it back and duct it under the rad.

Is your inlet ducting to the rotrex hanging in space? Mine has a bracket from KW that bolts to one of the shock bolts. I like yours with the 45°s rather than mine with the 90°s. I may also steal the cowl intake that Hornetball built. We'll see.

Subscribed! Keep us posted! :bigtu:

Mobius 02-01-2012 12:23 AM


Originally Posted by EO2K (Post 828935)
Nice! Clean, sanitary and well thought out build. I enjoy finding folks who are moving forward with the Rotrex stuff, gives me a semi. That FM charge pipe is definitely EZ-Mode, adding it to my shopping list now. I appreciate the pics of the routing and the parts list, I'm definitely copying your work. Picked out a pulley yet?

Thanks! Staying with the stock 88mm pulley for now.


It appears you have quite the cooler stack now. Are these guys all sealed together? My IC is 1' shorter in height, trying to decide if I should push it back against the AC core or lean it back and duct it under the rad.
Semi-ducted. I have sealed the top - both between the bumper cover and the radiator support (using Bell's piece for that) and then using a piece of sheet aluminum from the radiator support over the top of the AC condenser and radiator. I have not yet sealed the sides, and I haven't blocked off the space between the radiator and the undertray yet. I was ready to get the car back on the road and test out the new toys, which happened today. Woot.


Is your inlet ducting to the rotrex hanging in space? Mine has a bracket from KW that bolts to one of the shock bolts. I like yours with the 45°s rather than mine with the 90°s. I may also steal the cowl intake that Hornetball built. We'll see.
I had to do that 45 bend because of my EDFC. The adjustment motors for the shocks interfere with the stock routing. I was going to make a bracket to mount the MAF to the shock tower brace mounting holes, but I haven't, as it doesn't seem to be necessary. The filter is lightly sandwiched by the hood, and it also tucks up under the fender a bit behind the headlight, so it can't really move at all.

Last maintenance items have been taken care of - brake/clutch, transmission, and diff fluids all replaced. For the brakes, I alternate between ATE superblue and 200. Trans is Motorcraft XT-M5-QS full synthetic, and diff is Mobil1 75w90 full synthetic.

The newest addition to the car, which was a Christmas score, is the Miata Roadster short shift kit with the tall angled shifter. I haven't taken the car for an extended drive yet, but the initial test drive around the neighborhood today was very encouraging. It goes snick-snick now into gear. My previous slight crunch into second appears to be completely gone.

Tomorrow will be my first long drive. Assuming I find nothing to sort out from it, next week I will pull the restrictor and see how the xede does (have to wait until then due to family ski trip this weekend).

Mobius 02-17-2012 12:33 PM

Dyno time on Tuesday 2/21. Will be tuning with and without restrictor. So far my source for a larger restrictor has flaked on me, unfortunately, so all I have is the stock Kraftwerks one.

EO2K 02-17-2012 01:51 PM

Viiiiiideo!? Looking like good progress! I'd love to see a dyno chart, preferably with a MAP trace? Would be nice to see what kind of airflow the 88mm is capable of, unrestricted.

I've heard rumor that some of the earlier Rotrex guys were using big ass washers with various sized holes as restrictors, mounted up closer to the air cleaner. Never heard how this turned out. I always thought a mechanical iris and a linear actuator would be a really slick way to do it, but I couldn't find an iris that looked remotely like it could take that much abuse.

Thanks for the update!

Mobius 02-18-2012 05:34 PM

Dyno tuning will be delayed, unfortunately. I'm unable to get the hose that died in my driveway yesterday fixed in time. The "equivalent" replacement that I scrounged after 2 hours of searching yesterday is ... not equivalent, and won't go over the hose barb. So I bit it and ordered two from Finishline. The hose that died is bp6d-15-261, goes from the water neck down to the mixing manifold.

curly 02-18-2012 09:40 PM

Where are you dyno'ing? We'll have to have a dyno day once both are cars are done, I'm sure some of the CR peeps would enjoy knowing what their h/e/i has netted them.

Mobius 02-18-2012 10:07 PM

PDX Tuning in NorthWest. They haven't done an xede in a while, but at least they've done them before. Not that it's terribly complicated, but I have discovered that I really do not like trying to tune on the street. Part of that is due to the only laptop I have available being a big honkin' 17" Dell XPS with a battery life of about 75 minutes. That would still be doable, but even in 3rd a pull to 7k puts me at about 70 and I haven't found a nearby spot that's calm enough and safe enough (both in terms of other traffic, and citation risk) for that. Dyno is the way to go. Ms Mobius even agrees.

Mobius 03-11-2012 07:09 PM

22 Attachment(s)
Shock Tower Brace modifications.

My intake piping interferes with the FSB. I have finally gotten around to modifying it to fit the intake piping.

First I eyeballed it, then cut out what looked to be enough to clear the piping:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506505

Then I put it on to test fit the clearance:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506505
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506505

Then I made cardboard templates for the structural pieces to replace what I cut out. Cardboard was cut and fitted while the piece was on the car, but didn't get shots of that:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506505

Then I cut the steel using the cardboard templates from 3"x1/8" steel from Ace Hardware Home Racing, and test fit on the car:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506505
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506908

Then I welded it with my neighbor's Harbor Freight special Mig Welder and auto-darkening hood, grinded & sanded it, and primered & painted it.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506908
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506908
[IMG]https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506908[/IMG]
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1331506908


There are many who say the FSB isn't needed on the Miata. While it certainly isn't necessary, I could tell a difference when I took the brace off. The car feels more solid up front even under normal highway driving conditions with it on. Tying the front suspension together across the top, and thereby closing and completing a structural box around them, can't be a bad thing.

falcon 03-11-2012 08:06 PM

Because of the design of the front end of the Miata, theoretically you shouldn't be able to tell any difference on or off. Unless it's a 3 point tying in the firewall. I vote placebo effect.

tomiboy 03-12-2012 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by falcon (Post 846705)
Because of the design of the front end of the Miata, theoretically you shouldn't be able to tell any difference on or off. Unless it's a 3 point tying in the firewall. I vote placebo effect.

How did you come to that conclusion? Has testing been done?

falcon 03-12-2012 07:45 AM

If I had done testing, I wouldn't have said theoretically.

tomiboy 03-12-2012 01:49 PM

Explain the theory then. Inquiring minds want to know. I have a factory strut brace and if it doesn't do anything of value then why carry around the extra weight? Theoretically I could remove it.

falcon 03-13-2012 09:28 AM

Because of the front end suspension design and geometry, the Miata as well as other cars with a-arm suspension (like the RX7) do not benefit from a tower brace. The forces put on the shock towers are vertical whereas in a McPherson strut system, where a tower brace works to help battle any alignment deflection during hard cornering, the forces are much more side to side. Even RacingBeat wrote on their site that they have found no measurable difference running with or without one, hence why they don't make one.

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/perf...wer-brace.html


Why doesn't Racing Beat offer a "strut" tower brace?

Well, since the Miata is not equipped with a "strut" type suspension, we have never been compelled to offer a "strut" brace! Unlike some automotive applications that utilized McPherson strut suspension designs, the Miata was designed with a more performance-oriented front and rear double wishbone suspension.

On many early RX-7 applications, which utilized the McPherson strut style suspension, the tops of the strut "towers" were a more integral component of the suspension and bore both vertical and horizontal loads of the suspension. Many of these early cars featured upper strut towers that were inboard of the inner body panels and suffered measurable flexing while under load. For these applications, a brace between the tops of these strut towers provided significant structural rigidity. If room allowed, further bracing of the towers against and the firewall (a triangulated brace) further added to this rigidity.

On the Miata application, the tops of shock towers are subjected to primarily vertical loads from the upward movement of the springs and shocks. Adding a brace between the tops of these towers has not shown any measurable handling benefit during our testing.
Again on Wiki... only mentions of McPherson strut systems in relation to tower braces.


A strut bar, strut brace, or strut tower brace (STB) is a mostly aftermarket car suspension accessory usually used in conjunction with MacPherson struts on monocoque or unibody chassis to provide extra stiffness between the strut towers.

With a MacPherson strut suspension system where the spring and shock absorber are combined in the one suspension unit, the entire vertical suspension load is transmitted to the top of the vehicle's strut tower, unlike a double wishbone suspension where the spring and shock absorber may share the load separately. In general terms, a strut tower in a monocoque chassis is a reinforced portion of the inner wheel well and is not necessarily directly connected to the main chassis rails. For this reason there is inherent flex within the strut towers relative to the chassis rails.

A strut bar is designed to reduce this strut tower flex by tying two parallel strut towers together. This transmits the load of each strut tower during cornering which ties the two towers together and reduces chassis flex. To accomplish this effectively (especially on MacPherson strut suspensions), the bar must be rigid throughout its length, and also attached to the firewall.[citation needed]

tomiboy 03-13-2012 11:32 AM

Want to but an STB?

Seriously...thanks for the links and explanation!

falcon 03-13-2012 11:52 AM

No thanks :P... All it really does is add extra un needed weight and gets in the way when you're working on the car. Go to any SCCA National Tour and check out the top CSP cars. None of them run STB's.

jimj64 03-14-2012 06:33 PM

That is a very one sided view. It would be nice if any of it took into account that the miata is a convertible and loses a considerable amount of chassis rigidity because of it. There's a lot more to overall chassis rigidity than a "strut tower brace". The upper shock mount brace was part of a comprehensive chassis upgrade that included a brace connecting the lower rear front a-arm mounts, a mid chassis cross member and 2 rear lower a-arm braces. All told I doubt there's 40 lbs of added weight but the added chassis rigidity is well worth it.

I highly doubt that Mazda would have bothered with the chassis braces it put into the '01 up Miatas if there wasn't any benefit. The Miata had already been in production for many years and was selling well so it certainly wasn't merely a marketing ploy. Why would a manufacturer add to production costs with no apparent reason, personally I doubt they would.

Just my 02 cents

JimJ

curly 03-14-2012 08:53 PM

It depends on why the car was selling. People may have wanted a car that felt more substantial, didn't have as many little creaks and wobbles. Possibly even safer. They're not necessarily making the car faster, which is what we're debating. Take those 40lbs of braces out and it might not feel as stiff, but you might see a faster time around an autox course or track.

More to the point, the STB was supposedly made to keep strut towers from flexing, because when they do the alignment is thrown off, which isn't a problem with our double a-arm setup. Same reason we can't use camber plates. Therefore, although you might feel like your car is stiffer with a STB bolted on, it won't actually be helping make the suspension work any better, yet will be adding weight.

That's not to say you won't like the stiffness added with one, which is another topic altogether.

P.S. I'm not taking either side of the argument, so don't argue with me, just clarifying Falcon's point.

jimj64 03-15-2012 06:55 PM

I never said the shock tower brace had anything to do with suspension flex, I said it was part of a chassis stiffening package.

I don't believe Mazda calls it a "strut tower brace", why would they? It's a shock tower brace, as has been pointed out the miata does not have McPherson struts, so the comments about "strut tower braces" are kinda irrelevant. The discussion should be about whether or not the brace contributes to chassis stiffness not if it reduces front suspension flex. I'm sure the Mazda engineers know the difference between McPherson struts and dual a-arms, after all Mazda has used both and chose to put dual a-arms at all 4 four corners for a reason.

Falcons observations and comments are based on Mazda engineers being to stupid to know what kind of suspension they put on their own car, I highly doubt that's the case.

falcon 03-15-2012 07:10 PM

Ever hear of a "selling feature?" .... "ohhh, that one has a tower brace... I want that one."

Ask any of the real racers here on their opinion. I am just a mere mortal compared to Sav and Emilio, but IIRC I have read Emilios opinion on the subject before and he dosen't run one.

Curly.., when I originally posted I mentioned that a 3 point brace would be usefull. Based on what I can see as to how the front end is designed, running just a shock tower brace just boxes in that area but dosen't triangulate it.


I am drunk.

curly 03-15-2012 07:41 PM

Yea, and if you read FM's description on their own site, they say you're bolting it to a flimsy firewall, which makes sense to me, but I don't have any experience with one.

Jim, you're putting words in my mouth, please don't do that. I never said Mazda didn't know what suspension they put in the car, it's just that with the majority of STBs talked about, looked at, and referred to on the internet, the "S" stands for Strut. And like I said, since it's not helping keep our alignment aligned, it's only for chassis stiffness, which doesn't count for anything on track but driver's comfort. AKA: It might not be beneficial for OP's car, since he's building a bit of a track slut. Although, he has many other ways to save weight than on just the STB.

jimj64 03-15-2012 11:02 PM

I wasn't putting words in your mouth Curly, I was referring to Falcons comments. He keeps referring to the miatas "strut tower brace" and talking about how strut tower braces are intended to reduce flex in McPherson strut front ends, and he is correct, that's what "strut tower braces" are for.

Clearly the miata does not have McPherson struts and therefore does not have a strut tower brace. The '01+ Miatas with the sport suspension package have a front shock tower brace that are part of a chassis stiffening package that is intanded to improve handling/steering characteristics by strengthening/stiffening the chassis.

Honestly I didn't disagree with anything you said.


Originally Posted by curly (Post 848829)
Yea, and if you read FM's description on their own site, they say you're bolting it to a flimsy firewall, which makes sense to me, but I don't have any experience with one.

Jim, you're putting words in my mouth, please don't do that. I never said Mazda didn't know what suspension they put in the car, it's just that with the majority of STBs talked about, looked at, and referred to on the internet, the "S" stands for Strut. And like I said, since it's not helping keep our alignment aligned, it's only for chassis stiffness, which doesn't count for anything on track but driver's comfort. AKA: It might not be beneficial for OP's car, since he's building a bit of a track slut. Although, he has many other ways to save weight than on just the STB.


Mobius 03-20-2012 05:55 PM

Car is finally running properly. I had a vacuum leak due to the vacuum hose between the intake manifold (the "dynamic chamber" in service manual parlance) and the throttle body being disconnected. That hose has a curve in it, and was right in front of the barb, appearing to be connected at casual glance when in fact it was not.

Second problem was a faulty connection to injector #2, which was causing intermittent misfires and hesitation at about 4500rpm until it quit entirely. I swapped injector #1 with injector #2 and put dielectric grease on all of them, and everything runs well now.

Regarding the shock bar: I think I can tell a difference in steering feel with the bar on vs bar off, and in my view it just makes sense to tie the suspension mountpoints together across the engine bay to minimize lateral flex and let the suspension do its job. The factory bar is beefy and mounts solidly. I will agree with anyone who thinks that the bars with hinges in them are a waste of money, but the factory bar mounts solidly into a trapezoidal structure that will resist racking forces.


Next up now that the car is finally running right is the new dyno day, to see where we're at unrestricted. Gopro video from the rollbar mount will be provided.

Fodder from FM's website:
Cars with strut suspensions rely on the top of the strut towers to maintain their suspension geometry - and inconveniently, there`s usually an engine between them in the front. So strut tower braces are very popular to improve the handling on those cars.

But a Miata has a double wishbone front suspension. The top of the shock towers is mostly taking vertical loads. But there`s still a big hole in the middle of the engine bay, and that means the structure of the car suffers in this area. Joining the shock towers together with a well-designed brace will improve steering feel and cut down on cowl shake when you hit a bump.

EO2K 04-07-2012 02:36 PM

Just took my first stab at intercooler today following your build. I got the nose and the ductwork off the front of the car, I lol'd, then reassembled. :facepalm: There are some differences in the 99/00 AC system I need to figure out how to work around.

I noticed you did this:

Originally Posted by Mobius (Post 808422)
* Power steering hard lines: This was somewhat of a PITA. I ended up only keeping the loop of hard line that mounts under the hood latch. I eliminated the middle part and replaced with hose to clear the intercooler. I tried bending them but was dissatisfied with the results. For anyone else doing this, just go ahead and cut it and re-connect with hose rather than trying to bend them.

What type or rating of hose did you use for the PS reroute? Heads up on size would also be awesomes.

Thanks again for posting all of this stuff, with pics. It's really helped me along.

Mobius 04-07-2012 11:11 PM

You need the uber special-order hose known as, wait for it: "power steering hose". Can't recall the ID off the top of my head but any parts store should have what you need. The PS cooler is on the low-pressure side of the loop.

EO2K 04-08-2012 12:09 PM

lol, I deserved that.

I'll go visit the boys at Napa on Monday and see if they have something in stock. It the low pressure side so I won't worry about it too much.

Mobius 04-25-2012 05:18 PM

The tire trailer has a home
 
2 Attachment(s)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1335388570

Still have to choose and implement the tire retainment strategy, and the toolbox. Toolbox will come off the trailer during storage.

EO2K 04-25-2012 05:25 PM

Nice! Storage is always seems to be an issue with these things.

HF 40.5"x48" w/12" wheels? http://www.harborfreight.com/1090-lb...res-90153.html

Mobius 04-25-2012 11:48 PM

Yes and no. I got mine from Northern Tool, but it's the same Haulmaster trailer.

Note that Harbor Freight lists the assembled width as 52.5". This is incorrect; the grease caps on the hubs make the total width for clearance purposes 54".

18psi 04-25-2012 11:54 PM


Originally Posted by Mobius (Post 869961)
[IMG]https://www.miataturbo.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=41813&stc=1&d=13353885 70[IMG]

Still have to choose and implement the tire retainment strategy, and the toolbox. Toolbox will come off the trailer during storage.

lol that is pretty sweet:)

jimj64 04-26-2012 06:40 PM

Mobius, it would be interesting to compare dynes once we both have our cars running well, I am just about finished a DIY FMII with TDR intercooler install. My miata is also an '01 LS.

It'd be interesting to see the comparison as we both started with the same base car.

Jim J

Mobius 05-01-2012 03:27 PM

That will be an interesting comparison. I have not been able to get back to the dyno - maybe third week of May I will be able to. I'm guessing I'm at 200whp.

Mobius 05-30-2012 11:54 PM

Still haven't been to the dyno but had a track day yesterday. Car ran well. Pig rich at all points out of closed loop, but I can fix that. The ducted brakes were win and garnered some interest.

There was one other Miata, driven by an instructor. He was turbo'ed at 15psi. I didn't get a chance to do any comparisons as he pulled it out of the event at lunchtime due to increasing amounts of blue smoke exiting his tailpipe at WOT. His car was nicely put together - fully stripped and caged, wilwood brakes, clean and tidy engine compartment. Engine only had 1500 miles on it so he was rather bummed. He knew of mt.net (now he knows more) but wasn't a very active user. I didn't catch his screen name.

As for the rest of the field, I was the lowest HP car there except for several Exige's. Their weight advantage of ~600 lbs made up for that though, and they were all on better rubber than my lightly-used but nevertheless 4 year old RS2's. I was only a hair slower than them in a straight line. The Exige S's, however, were another story.

My "Flatout" moment of the day came during lunch, as the guy across from me at the table waxed enthusiasticly about the low cost of components for his brand new ZR-1. "Even if I have to replace the entire braking system, it's only $10k! That's pretty cheap for that kind of fun!" He had 500 miles on the car. Now, to be fair, he wasn't really being an ass and trying to impress anyone with the cost of his car and the budget he could blow on having fun. Later in the conversation he mentioned that he had previously raced Porsche's, and that the replacement cost for the same components on that car would have been over $20k. So from that frame of reference, it was cheaper for him.

I think my father-n-law put it best - everybody's toy budget is different.

Anyway, back to my car. I think I can pretty much say everything is on target at this point. Coolant temps were fine, and the overall handling was very stable and predictable. In the corner I can get it to push or tuck in with more/less throttle, like I want. I guesstimated on the shocks and had both front and reat set at 8, the midpoint. A very experienced local driver who owns/operates a well known performance shop drove it for three laps said "it does everything a miata should, only better, sharper, and faster." Mission goals achieved.

Next on the list for the car - TSE big brake kit, so I can stop with the same relaxed-sphincter confidence Trey and Andrew enjoy, and seats+harnesses. I am doing way too much bracing in the car. Oh, and switching to an 80mm pulley instead of the 88 for a wee bit more gusto.

Next on the list for me: downshifting under braking. Holy #*&$ am I incompetent at that. Towards the end of the day I changed how I was trying to do it, and had limited success. Now I just need to practice it until it's natural, like with riding a bike, or a flip turn in swimming, or a golf swing.

Edit: car list.

a) lots C5/C6 Vette's. Some Z06's, and the ZR-1.
b) several Porsche's. 996s, Caymans, couple of older turbo 911's. Whale tail ftw!
c) 3 late-model mustangs. At least one had the Eaton blower on it. I am not up to speed on current mustangs but these were all high horsepower cars.
d) numerous Exige and Exige S's.
e) open cockpit cars - spec ford, Ariel atom, couple of others.
f) a sweet 93 RX-7 turbo with some japanese body kit on it and the purple/yellow/green polychrome paint. Owner had just converted it to single turbo. ~400rwhp.

Mobius 06-12-2012 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by jimj64 (Post 870529)
Mobius, it would be interesting to compare dynes once we both have our cars running well, I am just about finished a DIY FMII with TDR intercooler install. My miata is also an '01 LS.

It'd be interesting to see the comparison as we both started with the same base car.

Jim J

I have failed at getting this done. This week and next week are out but I will try to get to a dyno later in the month. My fueling map is now solid (was pulling 9.x afr's at the first track event, lol) and everything's running well.

Mobius 08-24-2012 01:20 PM

New parts.
 
10 Attachment(s)
Installed my TSE BBK yesterday. Since the carbotech XP8's in my sport brakes were still getting the job done and still had lots of life after 5 track days and 8k miles, I stayed with the XP8's for the Wilwoods.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1345827943

The Motive power bleeder is the bomb. I'll never put speed bleeders on my brakes again. Bleeding the BBK from dry takes about half of the master cylinder.
Before:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1345827943
After:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1345827943

New gas pedal extension. This one is the bigfoot from Rennenmetal. Compare to FM's smaller extension in the second picture. The FM piece, at least in my case, left enough space that sometimes my foot would go between the pedals if I tried to roll over onto the gas. You look skilled and stylish to the turn workers when this happens.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1345827943
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1345827943

And, new muffler. Stock exhaust is too quiet to be heard over wind noise at speed, making it impossible to reference engine RPM by ear. This is the Enthuza NB XR Lightweight. Sounds awesome. I swap the stock muffler back on for daily driving to keep the stealth factor of my car.

Stock:


Enthuza NB XR Lightweight:

EO2K 11-14-2012 08:49 PM

I love how I keep coming back here so I can see how wrong I'm doing things :bang:

What is the diameter on the Enthuza? I didn't see it listed on his site. That thing looks small enough that you could probably stash it on the trailer and swap it out at the track with your tires.

Mobius 11-15-2012 02:14 PM

4 Attachment(s)
It's not very large.
Edit: It would be easy to transport. You would want to package it somewhat carefully to keep from crushing the can, it's not very thick. The OEM muffler is a tank in comparison.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1353006809

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1353006809

PhilM 12-28-2012 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by Mobius (Post 836501)
Dyno time on Tuesday 2/21. Will be tuning with and without restrictor. So far my source for a larger restrictor has flaked on me, unfortunately, so all I have is the stock Kraftwerks one.

Looks good. Thanks for the pics.

Mobius 01-23-2013 12:02 AM

2 Attachment(s)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1358917216

Mobius 01-24-2013 10:41 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Replaced intake and exhaust cam seals. Spent 4 hours with paper towels and a toothbrush cleaning the mess left by the old ones. Got to use my cam ninja tool. :bigtu:


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1359085141

Mobius 01-26-2013 10:56 PM

4 Attachment(s)
So the winter plan is to do the following:
  • replace cam seals Done
  • replace timing belt w/fancy baller blue Gates belt Done
  • clean the grimy sh*t from the old leaky cam seals Done
  • replace 88mm Rotrex pulley with 80mm Rotrex pulley Done
  • sell Tein Flex setup Done
  • acquire 949 Racing Big Grip combo Done
  • replace control arm bushings (poly) In Progress
  • replace diff bushings (stiffer mazda rubber)
  • install Touge Run air dam
  • remove FM's stage 2 airflow shroud & fans, mount single biggest spal fan
  • ducting around heat exchangers to prevent air escapage

To get the control arms out I had to borrow a friend's "persuader" - 2ft of bar permanently attached to a 1/2" ratchet. Neither of my impact wrenches were up to the task of getting the long bolts loose, but the persuader was persuasive. And we have no salt here - you East Coast guys must need 4ft of bar on the wrench.

I have had no issues so far with getting bushings out of the arms, once I figured out how to get the harbor freight clamp oriented right with the bushing in question. No need for fire or anything like that. They yield once the tool is oriented correctly and you can start torquing on it.

Couple of pics of the left UCA bushings submitting to my will!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1359258812
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1359258812

curly 01-27-2013 05:55 AM

Nice. I want the poly bushings, my blown suspension needs to change first. What time are you doing something tomorrow? I'm sleeping most of the day away, but I heard something about a kegerator?

Mobius 01-28-2013 01:37 AM

Sorry, didn't check the forums until this evening. We tried to put the hurt onto the diff bushings without much luck for about 3 hours. I'm lazy and don't want to completely remove the diff and as a result I'm working hard. Well, lazy, and we spent some time trying to get the PPF separated without much luck either.

Tomorrow I'm going to remove the left control arms, which will allow me to get the axle out from directly under the diff bushing, which will allow me to get Soviet's HF Frankenpuller into action on the diff bushing and push the remainders of its carcass out.

Yes, I am equipped with kegerator, and garage bishes get free use of it. Currently on tap - Bridgeport IPA and Bridgeport Dark Rain.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...eerfridge1-jpg

curly 01-28-2013 02:57 AM

I have an easy trick to get the diff out fairly easily. And I'm free starting at noonish. Interested?

EO2K 01-28-2013 07:07 PM

Curse you and your multiple stout faucets. Make me cry and tell me your running nitro or 25/75.


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