Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along - Page 91 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-11-2015, 06:28 PM   #1801
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

<p>oops, we dont actually have table blending yet.</p><p>But I will take pictures. Yank doesn't detail his **** online enough.</p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 06:39 PM   #1802
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

Yarr, I thought that might be the case. But even just auto table switching would be awesome.

I need pictures and **** because I'm incapable of independent thought.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 07:49 PM   #1803
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

I'm considering this fuel pressure regulator: https://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pres...ator-P229.aspx



I found this on Radium's site after looking up the pulse damper that Codrus was using. The part I like about this particular design is that it uses an OTS Bosch OEM pressure regulator to do the sealing and regulation part but you get convenient AN fittings out the inlet/outlet.



The regulator itself can be found in almost every Audi and VW 1.8T or 2.7T you can think of and they can be had for as little as $30 on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Bosch 0280160575 Fuel Pressure Regulator: Automotive Amazon.com: Bosch 0280160575 Fuel Pressure Regulator: Automotive
. That links to a 4 bar unit but they can also be found in .5 bar increments up to like 5 bar. That 4 bar one is not adjustable but it IS 1:1 vac/boost referenced. There are also adjustable ones that will work but I'm not sure I need the extra expense. Fixed is fine as long as its manifold referenced and its consistent.

Its either this guy or another Fuelab 53501, because its been proven to work. Must make decision and start buying plumbing stuff again
Attached Thumbnails
Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along-edited__dsc7548-2.jpg   Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along-non_adjustable_fpr-exploded2.jpg   Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along-edited__dsc7548-2.jpg   Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along-non_adjustable_fpr-exploded2.jpg  
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 07:54 PM   #1804
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

If anyone from the Volkswagen/Audi world knows something I don't about these regulators, I'd appreciate it if you'd speak up
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 08:40 PM   #1805
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,488
Total Cats: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post


The red stuff I may do in -6AN, I've not decided yet. The blue will probably end up being EFI hose with OEM push-on fittings, because ez-mode
Personally I wouldn't use the stock hardline. Adapters to/from AN for stock lines are spendy (at least, if you want the fancy aluminum ones that FM sells because they had failures with the cheap push-on ones). At $30 to convert a GM-style quick disconnect to AN, a stock hardline costs $60, which is more than just using long braided -6 AN hoses instead.

Also, the stock lines are effectively -5 (it's some metric size, but it works out to about that). If you're going to run ALLOFIT on E85 with an EFR, then -5 probably isn't big enough. So why invest a bunch of money in fittings to adapt to/from a hard line that you'll have to throw out later?

If I were doing a return-style system from scratch and not worrying about how to make it meet smog, I'd do:

- 2 of FM's AN fittings on the tank
- 2 feet of AN hose to an Earl's -6 AN fuel filter in the stock filter location
- 10 feet of AN hose to the front of the rail
- rail
- 18 inches of AN hose to the firewall-mounted regulator (or however much you need)
- 8 feet of AN hose to the tank return

It's all -6, it's all AN, nothing stock left in there to worry about E85 compatibility or fuel flow restriction.

At idle the injectors are running like 2% duty cycle, so the flow rate through the return isn't all that much lower than the feed line.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 08:48 PM   #1806
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

But the pressure isn't much above stock either.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 09:11 PM   #1807
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

Also, the Russell fittings I linked to are the all aluminum ones and are only 15.99
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:23 AM   #1808
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

Meh. I appriciate the feedback but I already have enough of the Russell adapter fittings to do the job, plus a second NB main fuel line as well.

Here is the current revision:


As for -6AN fittings, I'm only a few short at this point. I know exactly what I need for under the hood, its the 4 fittings between the Russell adapter and the main fuel line that I need to figure out. Its 4 fittings because my fuel filter already has -6 inlet/outlet. The barb fitting adapters are quite inexpensive and readily available. They are also not nearly as critical as the pressure bearing side so I have no worries there.

If the fuel line is in fact -5 equivalent and I find the limits of the line, I'm not sure -6 is going to be that much of an upgrade. At that point I probably need to go -8 or turn down the boost. I'll also need something like Bosch 044 to support that much fuel, and then I need to start thinking about an Getrag or 8.8 IRS and something other than a Miata 6 speed...

Its only a 6258
Attached Thumbnails
Nothing to see here, just project Sisyphus, move along-uw7l8ln.jpg  
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:29 AM   #1809
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Meh. I
<br />If the fuel line is in fact -5 equivalent and I find the limits of the line, I'm not sure -6 is going to be that much of an upgrade. At that point I probably need to go -8 or turn down the boost. I'll also need something like Bosch 044 to support that much fuel, and then I need to start thinking about an Getrag or 8.8 IRS and something other than a Miata 6 speed...>
<br />
<br /><br />
<br />OK faefae
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:31 AM   #1810
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

See? That's exactly it. I'm sure stock fuel line will be fine. Sure. Yeah, sure...
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:40 AM   #1811
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

<p>Plz go back to stock fuel rail. I'm genuinely curious what the limit of stock fuel components is, but don't want to be the one to test...turbofan were counting on you </p>
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:47 AM   #1812
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Plz go back to stock fuel rail
lolnope!
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:52 AM   #1813
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,447
Total Cats: 473
Default

I'm not going to be running more power than Ari (99mx5). He is on more stock components than me so look his way.
<br />
<br />I'd like to see 350 whp. If I do, great. If not, oh well. I'll be happy with 325 as well. Nice round numbers. Uncorrected.
<br />
<br />Gordon I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems you're waaaayyyyyy over thinking this.
<br />
<br />What's wrong with the plastic push on fittings? The stock fuel line is standard plastic push fittings. Isn't that good enough?
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:54 AM   #1814
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
I'm not going to be running more power than Ari (99mx5). He is on more stock components than me so look his way.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />I'd like to see 350 whp. If I do, great. If not, oh well. I'll be happy with 325 as well. Nice round numbers. Uncorrected.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />Gordon I have no idea what you're talking about. Seems you're waaaayyyyyy over thinking this.<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />What's wrong with the plastic push on fittings? The stock fuel line is standard plastic push fittings. Isn't that good enough?
<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Stock push on fittings don't see 90psi of fuel pressure (60psi base+30psi boost). I did some searching and couldn't find a single mention of pressure ratings on those things. Probably going to call doorman tomorrow.
<br />
<br />Though you can always just turn down the base pressure.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 01:15 AM   #1815
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,447
Total Cats: 473
Default

Why are we running 90 psi again? Where's that coming from? I thought it was like 43.5 psi base, and is it 1:1 after that with the stock NA regulator? So that'd need 46.5 psi boost...<br />
<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Or is that not how it works?
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 01:17 AM   #1816
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

AFPR. But yeah, were going to extreme cases. G what fuel pump. I think I'm gonna return my dw200 for a 300.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 01:51 AM   #1817
Elite Member
 
codrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,488
Total Cats: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
If the fuel line is in fact -5 equivalent and I find the limits of the line, I'm not sure -6 is going to be that much of an upgrade.
-6 has 50% more cross-sectional area than -5 does, due to that lovely r squared factor in the formula. 3.14*2.5*2.5 is 19.6, 3.14*3*3 is 28.2.

--Ian
codrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:38 PM   #1818
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Why are we running 90 psi again? Where's that coming from? I thought it was like 43.5 psi base, and is it 1:1 after that with the stock NA regulator? So that'd need 46.5 psi boost...

Or is that not how it works?
We? No, just me. The NB runs 60psi base pressure and I plan to continue running 60psi base pressure with the AFPR and return system. If you are using the NA regulator you'll be seeing 43.5psi base. Add your boost pressure to your base pressure and thats what you *should see on the high side of the fuel system.

* This of course assumes a perfect system with no loss due to fittings, turbulence, restrictions, etc... you get the idea.

So Ed, you got it right, no worries there.

I'd have no problem running the factory NB fittings at 43.5+25=68.5psi. I'm more worried about 60+25=85psi. that freaks me out just a little bit. I'M NOT SAYING I'M GOING TO RUN 25~30, this was just a number I pulled out of my ***. Though the turbo is probably capable of doing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
AFPR. But yeah, were going to extreme cases.
Exactly. I'd prefer to plan for the extreme and get some headroom than ride the edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
G what fuel pump. I think I'm gonna return my dw200 for a 300.
Currently have a DW200. When E85 happens I'll look at stepping up to the 300 and heavier gauge feed and relay for power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
-6 has 50% more cross-sectional area than -5 does, due to that lovely r squared factor in the formula. 3.14*2.5*2.5 is 19.6, 3.14*3*3 is 28.2.
Absolutely true. But we've already seen lots of guys hit 350+ on the stock lines so I'm going to try not to worry about it right now. When E85 happens I'll re-kajigger it all with -6 from the tank to the fuel line. Pinky swears.
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:40 PM   #1819
Destroyer of Inconel
Thread Starter
iTrader: (37)
 
EO2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In ur driveway, abusin' ur WPA
Posts: 9,262
Total Cats: 870
Default

I can hear 18psi laughing at me and face-palming from somewhere to the north...
EO2K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 12:40 PM   #1820
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 16,874
Total Cats: 1,266
Default

Why not just turn down base pressure? You have enough injector for it. I'm only contemplating turning mine up because I have smaller injectors.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3d scanned miata parts- interest check asmasm General Miata Chat 43 05-26-2017 03:34 PM
The Slowest Miata in Tampa Build vtbandit Build Threads 9 02-01-2017 07:29 PM
Help me test MS3 firmware! Win stuff! Ben MEGAsquirt 17 01-20-2017 05:29 PM
Noob from Arizona, Hi Richard here! Richard346 Meet and Greet 11 12-16-2016 04:48 PM
Move to Florida. Buy Miata vtbandit Meet and Greet 7 12-15-2016 08:33 PM


Tags
begi isn't helping, buttsex, doubt, efr=tits man, failure is an option, iono mang, longing, manifold mastectomy, moist b-hole, offending tits, procrastination, silent but deadly, tartar sauce massage oil, uncertainty, yearning

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:27 AM.