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So much dedication, love, blood, sweat, part mangling, paint rolling and respiratory problems in this thread.
I wish all Miatae were as lucky as your Heinz 57.
Lol, where the hell did all you people come from? It's just a stupid, gross NA
Originally Posted by msmola2002
So much CXRACING on the FB page that wouldn't last 10 mins in here.
I feel like they need to be here though, so we can set them straight. I've spent a very small amount of time on FB groups and the things I've seen truly frighten me. People are ruining these cars at an alarming rate.
Just as a quick example, when I was dealing with the emissions canister plumbing thing I found no less than a dozen posts in the various festering FB holes asking about how to delete it, and then 6 videos on youtube showing various methods of how to delete it. Seriously, what the ****? Its not hurting anything and you gain nothing from it, other than making your car reek of fuel. A couple of the methods block the vent completely, that's just going to make the tank overpressure. It's retarded. Do people do this just for the sake of modding things? My brain is full of ****.
Originally Posted by afm
Always more than glad to help a friend!
Originally Posted by 18psi
this is exactly how I feel about this thread. so if I ever text you "on the way" just know what's coming, and that I did it lovingly.
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
So much dedication, love, blood, sweat, part mangling, paint rolling and respiratory problems in this thread.
I wish all Miatae were as lucky as your Heinz 57.
Loved every update, would subscribe again.
Hah! I'm honestly not sure I'd wish this fate on any car. But its certainly been fun, and I've been enjoying the nostalgia! Thanks for stopping by! More stupidity to come, I promise.
My new Innova 3568 Timing Light finally arrived and while it does work, I'm not super impressed with it. It doesn't have a setting for wasted spark so the onboard tach is 2x actual RPM. Half the reason I bought this specific light was for the damn tach. Quite annoying. You can get this /2 feature with the 5568 model (in addition to do other stuff like check dwell) but its an extra ~$50 in price between models. Still trying to decide if I'm going to send it back or not. At least the 5568 comes with a blow molded case?
So! Time to adjust idle and base timing.
Originally Posted by Moss 999-100 Instructions
9.2 IDLE ADJUSTMENT:
Restart your engine. Using the idle airscrew on your throttle body (now on the back of the supercharger), adjust your idle speed to 950 rpm after the engine is warm. This is done by backing the adjustment screw out a half turn at a time until the correct speed is achieved (counter-clockwise rotation increases idle speed). Next, turn your headlights on BRIGHT and put your heater fan on HIGH. Leave the air conditioning off. Rev the engine briskly in neutral to at least 2500 rpm and release. Notice if the idle stops at 900rpm. If it dips below this level and feels like it will stall, then recovers to 950 rpm, open the idle airscrew (counter-clockwise rotation) one tenth of a turn at a time until most of this “droop” disappears. A slight droop of 100 rpm or so is acceptable and normal. More than that may create a stalling problem during driving. Turn off the lights and heater fan and double-check that your idle speed is 950 rpm.
This is where things get weird because then immediately following that, they want you to adjust the timing?
Originally Posted by Moss 999-100 Instructions
9.3 use timing light to adjust your ignition timing to 8° before top dead center (BTDC). You have to run a jumper wire (an unfolded paper clip will do nicely) between terminals “GND” and “TEN” of your diagnostics center (located just above the driver’s side shock absorber). The ignition timing is adjusted using the position sensor mounted at the firewall end of the exhaust camshaft. A 12mm box wrench will loosen the securing bolt. The 8° BTDC mark is the one just to the right of the “10º” mark on the crankshaft pulley as viewed under a timing light.
Interestingly enough, there is no section 9.4 in the instructions. So they want you to jack the idle to 950, then jump TEN & GND, then adjust the timing. OK then. The JR/Moss instructions then jump to section 9.5 where they spend a lot of time talking about setting base timing in reference to available fuel:
Originally Posted by Moss 999-100 Instructions
9.5 IGNITION TIMING AND FUEL QUALITY:
Your Miata supercharger kit is designed to operate on 92 Octane fuel. Make sure that any fuel you use meets this octane level using the R+M/2method. Failure to use 92 Octane fuel will result in engine-damaging detonation. Make sure that you run your engine on 92 Octane only, which means you should completely burn up any lower octane gas in your tank and refill it with 92 octane before installing your supercharger kit. NOTE: If you can only find 91 octane fuel (R+M/2 method) or if your fuel is oxygenated, set your timing to 6∞ BTDC instead of 8∞. If you live in an extremely hot area (temperatures exceeding 100ºF), set your timing to 6∞ BTDC for an extra margin of safety. In any case, should you ever hear “pinging” or knocking from your engine when under acceleration, you should take measures to eliminate this detonation, i.e. higher-octane fuel or a further retardation in ignition timing. NEVER CONTINUE TO OPERATEYOUR ENGINE IF YOU HEAR ANYSIGNS OF DETONATION (PINGING OR KNOCKING). YOU WILL QUICKLY MELT YOUR ENGINE DOWN! This kit has been carefully designed to work within the stock Mazda engine parameters and no detonation will occur if the above settings and fuel are followed. The only way detonation can creep into your situation is if your engine has a mechanical fault or the fuel you are using is of the incorrect octane, or if your timing is set incorrectly. It is your responsibility as the installer of this kit to insure that the supercharger has been installed according to specification.
We don't have 92 here and it regularly gets over 100°F during the summer so... lol? Looks like I'll be setting up for 6°, easy enough I guess. Warm up engine, crank up idle, jump TEN & GND and set timing 6° BTDC as per instructions. I was reminded how much I hate the dual timing marks on the NA. I think I got it right. Anyway, the engine sounds decidedly less happy idling at 6° than it did at 10° and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
The little voice in the back of my head seems to think I should manually check TDC and not trust this 25 year old damper. I'll probably continue attempting to drown it with alcohol and move forward.
And with that...
Car finally has 4 wheels on the ground again, which is nice. Ignore the spare for the moment, I'm just using it to push it around the driveway while I sort out some wheel and tire things.
As I'm trying really hard to follow the instructions, I felt this was a good time to pump all the old gas out of the car.
I put ~2.5g of CA91 on top of whatever was in the tank back when the fuel level gauge was dead. I figured I'd play it safe so I pumped the tank dry because if it had been 4 years since the last oil change, chances are the car wasn't driven that much and lord knows how old the fuel might be. I managed to pump a solid ~11.5g out of the thing (google says the tank is 12.7g) so I am feeling pretty good about that. Wife's penalty box got 5g, as did the Tacoma, and I have a couple gallons left over for the lawn mower. Or they'll go in her car as well. Maybe. I'll pick up a couple gallons of fresh CA91 sometime in the next couple of days so I can at least get this thing to the gas station for a proper fill-up.
However, now that the tank is dry I feel like the responsible thing to do is install a fuel pump. When I pumped out the tank I scabbed in a piece of hose post regulator and the fuel pump had the flow rate of an old man with a prostate problem. It took a solid 45min to pump out the tank. Granted, the engine was off so it was pumping against both the stock and JR regulators, but that still seems like some pretty weak flow. I also slammed my poor old battery down to 25% capacity, heh. I have a NIB DW200 in the garage, but it has an "install kit" with it for the WRX, and I don't have a new Miata fuel sock for it. I guess I can reuse the old one? Complicating matters is I don't know if the back end of the car has a NA6 fuel tank or an NA8 fuel tank. The pump hangers and fuel socks ARE different, and they are not interchangeable. I'm tempted to do some exploratory surgery, but this looks like its gonna suck:
Really not sure I'll be able to get the fuel pump hangar around the harness bar. #justracecarthings I guess. I'll explore this some time over the next couple days. Maybe. If I'm feeling ambitious.
These aren't mine, just helping a friend with them. The little 221 one is going to Japan if I am not mistaken. I am sure I can have any of the other ones I want. He has a lot, way more than this plus tons of roadsters. Besides I am leaving you the house and property G
Ok, so curiosity got the better of me and I got out the scalpel.
Surprisingly, I managed to get it past the harness bar and...
This looks ...not right. Not for a NA8 anyway
B6 eh? lolol. Frankenstein car strikes again! Got that thar 1.6 tank. For the lightness!
I got a little under 12g out of the tank and its almost completely dry, there's maybe 12-16oz left in the bottom of the thing. The NA6 tank checks in at 11.9g and the NA8 is 12.7g. There certainly isn't a full gallon left in the tank which is what I would expect if you tossed a 1.6 hanger in a 1.8 tank. This all makes some twisted sense, but we'll ignore it for now.
I want to have a chat about fuel pressure, but I need to warn you that we are going to get old school here. Hang in here for a bit and just let this run its course...
One big challenge here is that I don't know exactly how much fuel pressure to expect form the aux FPR. I can't find a published specification from Jackson Racing but some internet anecdotes claim that its a 5:1 FPR, that's 5psi of fuel for every 1psi of boost. These little M45s are geared for somewhere between 5-7psi depending on how shitty your boost gauge is, so if it is in fact a 5:1 then the FPR will be asking the pump for an additional 25-35psi on top of the 43.5psi that is the nominal rail pressure in the NA. So that's 68.5-78.5psi all in. On a potentially 30 year old stock NA6 pump. Yikes. And remember, I'm assuming this is a 5:1 FPR, it could potentially be 10:1 (93.5-113.5psi) and the oldschool Vortech FPRs go up as far as 12:1 (103.5-127.5psi) Double Yikes. ...but we'll ignore this for now as well.
As I mentioned previously I have a DW200 - 255lph pump, but I don't have the NA6 or NA8 specific install kit for it. The part number to install this pump on this NA6 hangar appears to be Deatschwerks 9-0836 but... I have concerns. And I'm not alone. Goodwin Racing has a blurb about this pump on their product page:
Originally Posted by GWR
Upon pump installation, re-tuning of the vehicle may be necessary. Recommended for cars with the ability to fully adjust fuel tables using a standalone ECU like Megasquirt or similar.
The stock Miata fuel pump can only provide so much fuel (tends to max out around 85 psi). We have already discussed the potential of higher fuel pressures versus higher horsepower. So, you need to upgrade the pump if you plan to fuel past 70-80psi, usually due to running small injectors on an FMU setup.
<snip>
Fuel pumps are rated in LPH. LPH as in the 190 or 255 means “Liters Per Hour” and not fuel pressure available. For most boost levels discussed here in this forum, the stock pump supplies enough LPH, just not enough fuel pressure. The maximum pressure available from the stock fuel pump was between 78 to 85 PSI. That should be sufficient to run the 5-6psi of boost level.
The most popular model is a direct replacement of the in-tank OEM fuel pump. But keep in mind an overly large fuel pump is not always the way to go.
For the longest time the Walbro 255 lb/h fuel pump had been the accepted pump for all FI Miatas. On Miatas with a return line, the 255 flows more fuel at any giving pressure level than is needed. They tend to overload the OEM FPR and cause the system to run rich even in vacuum.
Instead of idling at 35psi and reaching 48psi at 0~hg, it will run closer to 40psi at idle and 55psi at 0~hg.
Emphasis added is mine.
One the one hand, if this is in fact a 1.6 pump from whatever donor car provided the back half of this car, I may be looking at a 30 year old fuel pump. Logic dictates that replacing it is a solid idea. On the other hand, my idle emissions are absolutely critical and ******* with that is going to be a recipe for disaster.
Once upon a time I put a Walbro 190HP in my NB and it made me want to kill myself. It was a fine pump but I got sick of the "Walbro Whine" really quickly, so that pump is out. I like the DW series of pumps so I'm leaning real hard toward the Deatschwerks DW100 - 165lph in tank pump. The NA6 specific PN is 9-101-0836.
Very, very rough back of the napkin math is showing something like 77lph@75psi rail pressure
And according to the Tech Sheet on the DW100, it can do it. It's not going to be very happy above that pressure and we're right at the limit of what I'm expecting, but I think its worth giving this pump a try. I can't imagine this could be worse than a 30 year old pump with 177,000 miles on it.
Ok, so curiosity got the better of me and I got out the scalpel.
Surprisingly, I managed to get it past the harness bar and...
You have just made my day with these two pictures. The fuel pump in my NA6 died and my rollbar has the harness bar in the same spot and I have been dreading finding out that I cant get the fuel pump past it. (Also, having just had a 31 year old NA6 fuel pump die, changing it is probably a good idea).
You have just made my day with these two pictures. The fuel pump in my NA6 died and my rollbar has the harness bar in the same spot and I have been dreading finding out that I cant get the fuel pump past it. (Also, having just had a 31 year old NA6 fuel pump die, changing it is probably a good idea).
Awesome, glad to help! It takes a bit of finagling and turning to get it past the harness bar but it actually clears surprisingly well in you take it out towards the back of the car. I can't say which bar this is exactly other than its a Hard Dog bar, so hopefully this is relevant.
Also, speaking of messing with 30 year old stuff... Mazda PN NA01-60-962 Fuel Pump Tank Seal appears to be the correct part number for the seal between the pump hangar assembly and the tank. I'll order one today and make sure it fits. Appears to apply to all NAs, 90-97
For me, this seal is critical for passing the evap emissions pressure test so I'll be replacing it when the new pump goes in, figured the PN might be helpful as well.
11-25-2020, 09:05 PM
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For the record, I love the little truck. So much jelly.
