Wow! Thanks, Obamacare!
I actually tend to lean toward most of your predictions that costs will not come down. I am just trying not to be completely blinded by my convictions without hard data currently available on how this will actually play out. I have read conflicting stories of rates going down in some places (California) and rates going up in other place (private industry) but all of the articles I read seem to have a very clear political agenda and I can't sort through what is fact and what is distorted.
It is also unclear to me if parties on both sides are somehow creating better/worse results in the short term on purpose to push their political ideology. Obviously it is in the best interests of a place like California that is super liberal to report a reduction in healthcare costs to validate their support of the law. It is also in the best interests of private industry to exaggerate the projections and actual effects of the changes to allow them to continue to justify opposing the bill.
I think this whole thing is going to be a complete disaster and we will be picking up the pieces for years to come but I can't be 100% sure on that until it happens.
It is also unclear to me if parties on both sides are somehow creating better/worse results in the short term on purpose to push their political ideology. Obviously it is in the best interests of a place like California that is super liberal to report a reduction in healthcare costs to validate their support of the law. It is also in the best interests of private industry to exaggerate the projections and actual effects of the changes to allow them to continue to justify opposing the bill.
I think this whole thing is going to be a complete disaster and we will be picking up the pieces for years to come but I can't be 100% sure on that until it happens.
Reality check--my rates went up 38% last year. Reality check #2, doctors are dropping out of the system or are consolidating to places like Kaiser, because Kaiser pays for their liability insurance and (OF COURSE) tort reform can not be found in Obamacare. They'll end up limiting Medicare patients, which means low income patients will have longer waits and less care.
I remember when Governor Ahhnold told us that the illegal alien population was artificially inflating our in-state insurance by $1,000 per family. When my friend gets hit on his bike by a drunken illegal alien and breaks his femur, I can see why. When I take my kid to the emergency room and an ESL family is being treated for the flu (or a weed-wacker accident--i've seen both), I can see why.
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It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.
Thomas Sowell
Thomas Sowell
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Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146% - Forbes
Reality check--my rates went up 38% last year. Reality check #2, doctors are dropping out of the system or are consolidating to places like Kaiser, because Kaiser pays for their liability insurance and (OF COURSE) tort reform can not be found in Obamacare. They'll end up limiting Medicare patients, which means low income patients will have longer waits and less care.
Reality check--my rates went up 38% last year. Reality check #2, doctors are dropping out of the system or are consolidating to places like Kaiser, because Kaiser pays for their liability insurance and (OF COURSE) tort reform can not be found in Obamacare. They'll end up limiting Medicare patients, which means low income patients will have longer waits and less care.
Your second paragraph is much more revealing though and it is more along the lines of what I am trying to find. The unintended consequences of this law will be the real issues. I can make healthcare cost whatever I want if I have complete power to regulate it. I can't control the quality of that healthcare. That will be the killer.
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Well, I didn't want anyone to think the actual goal was to lower costs and not destory the current system, blame it on capitalism, greed, and the 1%, and then establish a gov't controlled system as a solution to the gov't imposed laws/rules that fucked a good system to begin with. you know, just to be clear.
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“What do you think he’d say about Obamacare?” asked Joyner, when discussing King’s legacy.
“Oh he’d like that,” Obama asserted. “Well, because he understood that health care, health security is not a privilege, it’s something in a county as wealthy as ours, everybody should have access to.”
"Starting on Oct 1, because of Obamacare, anybody who doesnt have health insurance in this country is going to be able to get it at an affordable rate. For a lot of people it will be cheaper than your cell phone bill. And as consequence you will be getting free prevention, for check ups, and if heaven forbid you get sick, or family member gets sick, you know you have the security...and get the treatment you need."
Bullshit. I spend $60 a month on my cell phone and get **** service. I'm almost never in 4G and my internet never works when I want it to. I couldn't imagine what **** service I'd be getting from DOCTORS of all people paying much less but getting all this "free" ****.
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 878
Total Cats: 79
From: Maryville TN
"Starting on Oct 1, because of Obamacare, anybody who doesnt have health insurance in this country is going to be able to get it at an affordable rate. For a lot of people it will be cheaper than your cell phone bill. "
Bullshit. I spend $60 a month on my cell phone and get **** service. I'm almost never in 4G and my internet never works when I want it to. I couldn't imagine what **** service I'd be getting from DOCTORS of all people paying much less but getting all this "free" ****.
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no, they were intended.
So what does it mean when a government intentionally lies to the people in order to force its will on the people? The eventual intent is for all the supporting companies associated with Obamacare to fail to the point that a single payer is the "only choice"?
If liberals stand by "on principle" while their side wins, while the rest of America loses, they should be ready for the consequences.
So what does it mean when a government intentionally lies to the people in order to force its will on the people? The eventual intent is for all the supporting companies associated with Obamacare to fail to the point that a single payer is the "only choice"?
If liberals stand by "on principle" while their side wins, while the rest of America loses, they should be ready for the consequences.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,718
Total Cats: 830
From: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Obamacare's average monthly cost across U.S.: $328
Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
Americans will pay an average premium of $328 monthly for a mid-tier health insurance plan when the Obamacare health exchanges open for enrollment next week, and most will qualify for government subsidies to lower that price, the Obama administration said on Wednesday.
Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
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costs are going up; it's simple economics. If you can't see it or feel it personally you're blind as a bat.
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I have the lowest health plan offered here and pay just above that average. It was cheaper in FY13, and FY12, and FY11, and 10 9 8 857734628195468ewr1111-`-`1-0wrfds...
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The ONLY plus to living in NJ is that we are supposed to see a decrease in premiums while almost all other states will see an increase. I don't even believe that.
How much is Obamacare REALLY going to raise your premiums? A state by state map. | AgainstCronyCapitalism.org
How much is Obamacare REALLY going to raise your premiums? A state by state map. | AgainstCronyCapitalism.org
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All of these numbers people throw out blow my mind for individual coverage especially if you have an employer plan. At my current and previous job I pay less than a quarter of that monthly average. My previous employer was a very small firm and my current employer is the largest professional services firm globally by both revenues and employees so I have been on both ends of the spectrum. Granted I am very young and I always choose the high deductible plan because I am very healthy but still. Holy ****.
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Obamacare's average monthly cost across U.S.: $328
Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
Maybe i still don't understand this. But i have the top of the line blue cross, with all the fancy stuff and i pay less than half that. That's even with a recent 20% increase... Really, i don't get it. Are these numbers just scare numbers or is this real?
Without government subsidies, there is no way the average low or middle income individuals (including young people) are going to be able to afford $300+ per month in health insurance. I also wasn't clear if that figure quoted was for a single person or a family plan.
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All of these numbers people throw out blow my mind for individual coverage especially if you have an employer plan. At my current and previous job I pay less than a quarter of that monthly average. My previous employer was a very small firm and my current employer is the largest professional services firm globally by both revenues and employees so I have been on both ends of the spectrum. Granted I am very young and I always choose the high deductible plan because I am very healthy but still. Holy ****.
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