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Old 10-16-2010, 11:33 PM   #61
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Yes, and also, there are lots of high hp cars that are using megasquirt. **** that expensive EMS- just use what u got.
I drive the car daily when it's nice, so that wouldn't be very good running E85 due to the fact I could get stuck somewhere with no way to get E85, unless I roll around with 5 extra gallons in the trunk...just doesn't make much sense to me, I would rather do things right the first time. And true, they're several high horsepower cars that run a Megasquirt and there is nothing wrong with a MS, BUT like I said, I have more capabilities with my current ECU.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:53 PM   #62
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Tuning rate is $200 an hr, full set-up of the ECU with flex fuel is $2995 plus the boomslang harness that would have to be made on my car, so maybe $3500 total + tuning, plus supporting mods=$6,000+ to lay down 600 whp. I could go all out, like 700+ whp but that means a new turbo etc, which is too much money. I don't think 700 whp would be very streetable in a car that is alittle over 2000 pounds lol, **** I don't even think 600 whp would be.
What are the supporting mods? I don't see anything other than a wastegate spring.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:02 AM   #63
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lol well I would want it to be reliable, so a built trans, DSS custom axles at least...

I mean, yeah I could actually put the car to 30 psi right now, just swap out fuel and injectors and make 600 whp but I don't know how long the drivetrain would last.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:09 AM   #64
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In my honest opinion I think its ******* retarded to spend that much on an ecu+tune.

Also you'd need to pretty much replace every single thing on your car with custom ****. diff/trans/axles/etc etc etc.

And for what? so you could spin til 80 like the 1000whp supra's? even with ridiculously low final drive you'd still spin like a ***** IMO.

its a tiny light car with a short wheelbase. getting loose at 100mph will almost guarrantee you put it into a post/tree/wall/other car
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:17 AM   #65
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In my honest opinion I think its ******* retarded to spend that much on an ecu+tune.

Also you'd need to pretty much replace every single thing on your car with custom ****. diff/trans/axles/etc etc etc.

And for what? so you could spin til 80 like the 1000whp supra's? even with ridiculously low final drive you'd still spin like a ***** IMO.

its a tiny light car with a short wheelbase. getting loose at 100mph will almost guarrantee you put it into a post/tree/wall/other car
Don't try to justify your self imposed limitation to 18psi. When I dyno tune later this month I will put your car to shame. I will have all the psi.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:23 AM   #66
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LOLWUT

If he has that kinda cash to blow and the motivation to do it I say go for it. It will just make the video's I'll be watching of his car that much more interesting lol
Pointless? yes. Entertaining? HELL YA.


And bring it on bitch, I'll wait for you to get on my level then crush you
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:27 AM   #67
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LOL, actually my car has really good traction it doesn't even break the tires loose in 3+ gear. Don't ask me how...

If I did decide to run 600 whp so I can run with the big boys I would be rolling on fat meats in the rears, 225/60/15 Drag Radials at least.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:29 AM   #68
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Don't try to justify your self imposed limitation to 18psi. When I dyno tune later this month I will put your car to shame. I will have all the psi.
Man, you better have a good ******* excuse when you don't beat me horsepower/per psi you have a 1.9L xoxox
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:20 AM   #69
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MS maps (tuning tables) are only 12x12 where as the PRO EFI are 128x128. Plus a bunch of other things the MS does not have, such as a built in MAP sensor with unlimited range, etc etc a MS would be a downgrade for my AEM EMS, let alone a Pro EFI ECU... It's so big though lol,
They are 16x16 for fueling and 12x12 for spark, which is more than enough, I tuned a Miata running 23psi on the MS2. You can expand that to 16x32 or 32x16 for fuel, and 12x24 or 24x12 for spark. The MS3 has 16x16 everywhere, also expandable to 16x32 or 32x16.

You can also have a MAP sensor that has unlimited range on the MS (there's no such thing but hey, they tell people **** all the time to sell them anything), but that loses accuracy so much, it makes me want to cry.

The MS3 also has the AFR and EGT Safety system, where it will activate a limiter if you go lean or hot under boost.

Oh, it's also $500, just saying. Save your money man, really.
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:04 AM   #70
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LOL, actually my car has really good traction it doesn't even break the tires loose in 3+ gear. Don't ask me how...

If I did decide to run 600 whp so I can run with the big boys I would be rolling on fat meats in the rears, 225/60/15 Drag Radials at least.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:15 AM   #71
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For instance, if I don't have an E85 station close by and I have E85 in tank, if I put 93 in it will adjust my map, timing boost etc for the fuel. It's really advanced trick stuff.
It's cool, but not all that advanced IMO. All it does is run fuel maps that are 4D instead of 3D - the Z axis is percentage of ethanol in the tank. You're still responsible for making sure that it's tuned correctly with a 60/40 blend of 93 and E85 in the tank, which makes setting the fuel and timing maps up an *enormous* *****.

128x128 maps are asinine and excessive, but a great way for tuners to rip people off I guess. 16x16 allows plenty of resolution to tune cars running 30psi without taking a decade to tune. With automatic extrapolation between cells there's absolutely no reason for that much resolution to exist. Even the 24x24 maps on the Hydra 2.6 cars are a little excessive IMO, unless you are running a LOT of boost.

The numbers are great, but IMO you should spend a lot more time focusing on mid-range torque, since you have very, very little of it. I'm making over 100ft.lbs more than you are at 4500rpm - that's really, really bad. I don't know whether it's the Kelfords or the super-short intake manifold runners or what, but IMO it seriously needs to be addressed before you talk about blowing another $5-6k on an ECU upgrade. I understand the 5857 is a big turbo but you should still be on full song by ~5000rpm at the latest. You aren't seeing the full kick of that turbo until past 6000rpm, which is too late to be usable.

Which one of these setups would you rather drive? Torque/HP are equal at 6000rpm.

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Old 10-17-2010, 05:16 AM   #72
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It's not about how wide the tire is on drag tires, it's about how tall they are lol 60's are super tall. Interesting graph Sav what do you think I could do to improve this? Cam gears possibly? But, we also do different things in our cars I mostly like to do highway pulls/runs so higher RPM power is good for me, maybe this is why my trans has lasted so long? Also, your car was dyno'd on a dynopak the graph would look a lot different if I was on one of those, I would make about 40+ more hp then I did. But your car has to be a blast to drive with all that midrange power.

"The car ran perfectly all weekend, consistant 9.6'[email protected], which is pretty impressive considering all of the tuning was a few emails back and forth with Jason at ProEFI. The flex fuel feature is so nice! I can run the car full tilt nearly all the time, and not have to worry about octane. If I need gas and can't get E85, I can still put pump gas in the car and the computer will make the appropriate adjustments, no need to hook up the laptop or anything....just simple! I can't wait to get the race car to the track on this system." ......John Shepherd


I was told you do not have to make separate maps for fuels, just one.

Last edited by jtothawhat; 10-17-2010 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:53 AM   #73
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There is only one. But at 128x128 it will be a bitch and a half to tune and you will get charged up the *** for it. which you already know and what Sav was emphasizing.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:49 AM   #74
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Any chance you could post up a datalog from a full pull? I'd specifically like to see 2000-7000 rpm with log time, ignition timing, rpm, boost and afrs would be nice. If the shop shared the dyno config it would also be nice to see that. What tires are you currently running that traction in 3rd isn't an issue?

I also forgot to say this earlier, nice numbers.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:26 AM   #75
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[QUOTE=jtothawhat;644290]LOL, actually my car has really good traction it doesn't even break the tires loose in 3+ gear. Don't ask me how...
/QUOTE]

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What tires are you currently running that traction in 3rd isn't an issue?
Slipping clutch??
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:26 AM   #76
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Double sided tape?
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:09 PM   #77
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I take that back, last night it was about 45 outside after 6,200 rpm my car would spin at the top of 3rd, 4th gear no tire spin at all, I think if it is 70 outside or above I wouldn't have tire spin at the top of 3rd. I am running Nitto NT01's in the rear at about 25 psi, with my KYB AGX shocks at #3.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:09 PM   #78
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these turbos are making 800 wheel in DSM cars.... the turbo isnt the limiting factor here.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:10 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
Any chance you could post up a datalog from a full pull? I'd specifically like to see 2000-7000 rpm with log time, ignition timing, rpm, boost and afrs would be nice. If the shop shared the dyno config it would also be nice to see that. What tires are you currently running that traction in 3rd isn't an issue?

I also forgot to say this earlier, nice numbers.
I am not sure if there was any dataloging done, but I can do it today.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:11 PM   #80
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these turbos are making 800 wheel in DSM cars.... the turbo isnt the limiting factor here.
My turbo is rated for 600 hp, where did you see that?. 6262 they're making like 700+ hp.
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