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Old 06-23-2014, 11:18 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
I'll give that a shot tomorrow evening and report back. Car is a 99-00.

EDIT: I've seen it referenced more than once that nitrous 1/2 can only be used in certain applications. Would this be on of those applications it CANNOT be used?
This should work correctly. Test on a stim first. With the pullup installed, test for voltage on your Nitrous 1 output. With the charge setpoint below current system voltage, you should see 0V on your meter. With charge setpoint above system voltage, you should read 5V. If you read the opposite, invert the logic, which is what I think is going on here.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:14 PM   #62
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This should work correctly. Test on a stim first. With the pullup installed, test for voltage on your Nitrous 1 output. With the charge setpoint below current system voltage, you should see 0V on your meter. With charge setpoint above system voltage, you should read 5V. If you read the opposite, invert the logic, which is what I think is going on here.
Tried Normal instead of inverted, no difference.

Didn't test it on the stim, but I didn't notice this:

I don't believe MS is ever even trying to charge the battery. The alternator control duty cycle never leaves 0.

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Old 06-24-2014, 12:28 AM   #63
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Just to be clear and double check myself, is the following acceptable?
M30 - Generator Field Control (main board idle valve)
M32 - Battery Light (main board injector 1)

I see that main board idle valve lists max current at .8Amps. Is that sufficient for the field control or do I need to use my only remaining PWM output (VVT)?

Also, can I get away with using the IAC1 or IAC2 circuits? What would I need to do to make that work?

Attached you will find my current inputs/outputs file.
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File Type: xls Inputs_outputs.xls (38.3 KB, 90 views)
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:52 AM   #64
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... and the schematics ARE available readily on line...
There must be a page describing the output signal of each pin, but I can find it. I wish I could point you to it Stephen. Since the IACs provide 12V, I suppose a PNP behind it must work, but what do I know and it's not in the manuals.

Ben, don't take this as criticism towards you guys. I know you don't make the manuals and are not responsable for them. I genuinely do not now where to find the information on what type of signal each pin outputs. And trust me, I do read the manuals. I practically know the the schematics by heart by now, but still find it a nightmare to find information. Must be my lack of brains.

I do know the IACs are for a stepper valve and supply 12V, the LEDs supply 5V, but no clue on JS4,5,10,11 etc.
Since the IACs can do PWM Boost, I figured they were PWM outputs, needing the configuration you mentioned, although I did find it odd. But then again, nothing in the manuals about this, only information scattered around on various forums, in various topics.
You can't say that all that information is readily available on line, it simply is not.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:03 AM   #65
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When I was going through msextra, and trying to find ANY docs on how to wire the alt. control, it was suggested you use a 330-470ohm resistor. 1K might be a touch too much.

I feel like a lot of confusion would be removed if someone just posted EXACTLY how to wire it. Ben, you suggest that they should wire it "like in [your] posts" but you don't ever really outline how to wire it, like at all.

Like why not something like this:
99-00
1O - Nitrous 1 out (330ohm pull-up to 5v)
1T - I dunno cause no one has ever suggested what you need to wire alt sense to and I spent over an hour looking for documentation on the alternator control and was unable to find any, only a few posts from back in Jan where Ken was talking about first developing the function...


On the pull-up note, would not using Spark e-f-g-h (Normal) not make more sense since it already outputs 0-5v and you don't need to do additional wiring?

Frank, almost all the outputs on the mainboard need additional circuits to work correctly. you'd need to build a pwm circuit on the proto area to use JS0.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:06 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
When I was going through msextra, and trying to find ANY docs on how to wire the alt. control, it was suggested you use a 330-470ohm resistor. 1K might be a touch too much.
I can give this a go tonight and report back. This will be my last attempt before switching to Frank's board and calling it a day though.

EDIT: This still doesn't explain why the Alternator Control Duty % indicates it isn't attempting to charge though.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:20 AM   #67
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what's the base voltage of the stim? I use a power supply on my stim to increase/decrease the system voltage in order to test alternator functions.

I'm assuming your stim's voltage is under 15v? That would be a "trying to charge" condition, since 0% DC would be 5v. If you metered nitrous 1, you'd see 5v. You need to be able to increase the system voltage about the charge point. So alter the target voltage to be below/above the system voltage to test.

looking again, the suggestion to go from 1K to 330ohm was because he couldn't command more than 13v to charge. So the value shouldn't matter, since it's not about amperage draw.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:25 AM   #68
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what's the base voltage of the stim? I use a power supply on my stim to increase/decrease the system voltage in order to test alternator functions.

I'm assuming your stim's voltage is under 15v? That would be a "trying to charge" condition, since 0% DC would be 5v.
This was on the car, not on the stim. Voltage went from approx 11V to 10V during the course of it running (battery is on its last leg). I currently only have access to a v2.2 stim.

Though you are correct, I hadn't thought about the fact that maybe 100% duty is not charging.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:19 AM   #69
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well thinking about it, 0%DC if inverted would be full grounded, no charge. right?
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:23 AM   #70
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well thinking about it, 0%DC if inverted would be full grounded, no charge. right?
Should be. And I tried both normal and inverted, so that should have covered all bases. Not once did the duty needle read anything other than 0.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:47 AM   #71
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Check that the MS3's alternator output pin is at 5v when it's supposed to be charging.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #72
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Ben, don't take this as criticism towards you guys. I know you don't make the manuals and are not responsable for them. I genuinely do not now where to find the information on what type of signal each pin outputs. And trust me, I do read the manuals. I practically know the the schematics by heart by now, but still find it a nightmare to find information. Must be my lack of brains.
I found this page to be helpful, especially the individual pages for injector outputs, spark outputs etc... Megasquirt-3 MS3 Hardware Manual

I know this isn't the right forum for it but it is an example of how confusing it can be. When I built my MS3, I heard people use words like "flyback", "pull-up" etc without knowing exactly what it meant.

I am not an electronic wiz but I do understand the different types of functions that each "signal" can provide.

Toggle (ground = on)
Toggle (12v,5v etc = on)
PWM OUT
etcetera.

Some inputs and outputs can be converted to different uses, right? How does one go about doing this? For example, at the bottom of the link I provided there is a table called "MS3 pin usage chart."

For example,
"Fidle" : Megasuirt pin #30
Max current 0.8A
Typical MS2 usage: PWM Idle Valve
Typical MS3 usage: Spare output
Alternative functions: Datalog LED, Boost Control PWM Output, Generic Output

This page covers the wiring for PWM mid current outputs, but it doesn't include MS pin #30 in the list. What else is involved in using the above referenced pin as a PWM out? Is there anything that I need to know so I don't hurt anything?

It's stuff like that. I can follow wiring diagrams, I generally understand schematics, but when it comes to customization I am pretty clueless.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:29 PM   #73
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This page covers the wiring for PWM mid current outputs, but it doesn't include MS pin #30 in the list. What else is involved in using the above referenced pin as a PWM out? Is there anything that I need to know so I don't hurt anything?

that's because that page is specifically discussing the Expander outputs.

im sure anyone that's build a MS1 or MS2 or non-expander MS3 knows that you must build a PWM circuit using a TIP122 in order to use "pin 30" as a PWM output to drive things like the idle valve. (the schematics/docs tell you this as well)
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:16 PM   #74
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Well, it's been quite a while since I built my MS3 and I have forgotten so much. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:32 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by WestfieldMX5 View Post
There must be a page describing the output signal of each pin, but I can find it.
Is this what you're looking for?

Megasquirt-3 MS3 Hardware Manual
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:05 PM   #76
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Not at all. I practically know that table by heart. I'd like to see a page that describes the output signal of each pin in each possible mode (input - output), not its function.
For instance, what signal do JS10 and JS11 provide in output mode (tacho out, generic out, boost pwm out)? Is it a ground? 5V? 12V?
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:39 AM   #77
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My tuner got it working. I asked if he wouldn't mind sharing to those of you who are still experiencing problems.

You need to use 1.3.2 beta firmware and put a 5v pull up on a pwm output it goes to the field wire on the alternator

This is for the 99 00
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:07 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
When I was going through msextra, and trying to find ANY docs on how to wire the alt. control, it was suggested you use a 330-470ohm resistor. 1K might be a touch too much.

I feel like a lot of confusion would be removed if someone just posted EXACTLY how to wire it. Ben, you suggest that they should wire it "like in [your] posts" but you don't ever really outline how to wire it, like at all.

Like why not something like this:
99-00
1O - Nitrous 1 out (330ohm pull-up to 5v)
1T - I dunno cause no one has ever suggested what you need to wire alt sense to and I spent over an hour looking for documentation on the alternator control and was unable to find any, only a few posts from back in Jan where Ken was talking about first developing the function...


On the pull-up note, would not using Spark e-f-g-h (Normal) not make more sense since it already outputs 0-5v and you don't need to do additional wiring?
You need to wire a generic PWM output to the alternator's field. It also requires a pullup. I used a 470ohm to 5V.


The Mazda diagram is kind of confusing. 99/00:
Alternator field is 1O
Alt sense is 1T

01/05:
field is D4
sense is E27
Where D is the 24 pin plug and E is the 31 pin plug

I wouldn't use a spark output as the 5V source, unless you add a transistor buffer circuit.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:25 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by WestfieldMX5 View Post
Not at all. I practically know that table by heart. I'd like to see a page that describes the output signal of each pin in each possible mode (input - output), not its function.
For instance, what signal do JS10 and JS11 provide in output mode (tacho out, generic out, boost pwm out)? Is it a ground? 5V? 12V?
That page gives the maximum current each can handle. The spark outputs are 5V high side, stepper outputs switch from 12V to ground, all others are grounded.
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:41 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
Should be. And I tried both normal and inverted, so that should have covered all bases. Not once did the duty needle read anything other than 0.
Did you ever get this working, or did you go to the hardware module?
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