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Old 04-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
If you want to lose fat, its calories in vs. calories out. Period.
While technically true, some food tends to increase your caloric intake by making you hungrier sooner despite a caloric surplus. This is what sugar and starch do. They get turned into blood sugar very quickly and the spike causes insulin to suck the blood sugar out of your blood and be deposited into fat. Then the blood sugar crash causes you to be hungry again.

Fructose is even worse, it gets metabolized into fat, and doesn't stop the hunger-feeling process, so you stay hungry and eat more.

Fat in your diet keeps your blood sugar at an even keel, so you don't get hungry right away. And if your leptin/insulin system is in good shape, several hours after a meal, your body seamlessly switches to burning stored fat seamlessly without crashing your blood sugar.

Bottom line, the form of calories makes a HUGE difference in your metabolism and can push you to a caloric surplus by making you hungry all the time.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:20 PM   #62
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Metabolism is the energy cost of running your body. NOTHING ELSE. People hijack the word "metabolism" so much its ridiculous. Eating crappy food CAN do a lot of things, but if you DONT eat a surplus of it, then its no problem.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #63
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OK smart guy, can you comment on this guy's lecture about how the liver metabolizes fructose, and the effects on the ghrelin/leptin/blood sugar/insulin system?

Let's see you try this for a day:
- Take all your normal calories in the form of fruit juice and soda. Let's see if it satisfies your hunger.

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Old 04-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #64
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I can comment, yes. If you are eating too much food with all that "bad" stuff in it, then all those terrible things will happen! If you don't eat enough of the "bad" stuff to gain fat weight then you will be just fine.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #65
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:32 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Dot3 View Post
Why are people asking and taking advice from a car forum?
Because it's best to get advice from people that have actually done it and/or know what they are doing. It's also important to get solid advice about what to do when you get there (ideal weight). This is why the majority of people who do cal. in/out diets either gain weight, stay the same or end up putting it all back on.

There is a correct process and it's been discussed here.

LOL @ twinkie diet guy. You know that **** ended up gaining weight, right? He had to stop it after his insulin/sugar levels went haywire and started to damage his body. His cholesterol levels also increased (increased cholesterol?!?! But he wasn't eating red meat!!! How is that possible?!?!)

Also, read his "before diet" chart. The dude was packing in a **** ton of sugar/carbs and going to twinkies actually lowered his carb/sugar intake (he was also consuming a protein shake and a can of vegetables regularly, too). By the time his body adjusted he gained it all back because his main food source was all processed ****.

Last edited by viperormiata; 04-17-2013 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #67
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Why are people asking and taking advice from a car forum?
Not just "a car forum" but "this car forum." The answer is because there are several very fit and healthy people, a few that have lost or gained weight as desired and a number of very intelligent folk.

Assuming everything everyone is posting about themselves is true and not just internet BS like Manti Te'o's girlfriend.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dot3 View Post
Why are people asking and taking advice from a car forum?
There are very few subjects that I would not address on this forum tbh. There are a lot of very intelligent people on this forum spanning many different subjects. Obviously this forum is not a place I would consider to be authoritative but people generally can support their claims with real data instead of anecdotal evidence or pure opinion.

I find that I have been pointed in the right direction on almost everything that has interested me on here from how to brew beer to how the monetary system in the modern world actually operates. This is by far the best overall forum I have ever visited or heard of period.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:53 AM   #69
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True. This forum is the best I've seen so far.
I like to think I'm pretty fit and know enough.
But if you look on other fitness forums everyone is an expert. Even if they have no clue what they are talking about. Same thing with people I talk to. It makes me question everyone who talks about this subject. Not saying I know, but im very hesitant to believe someone. I try my best find the truth.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:16 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Metabolism is the energy cost of running your body. NOTHING ELSE. People hijack the word "metabolism" so much its ridiculous.
Perhaps you have a different word for the concept of how preferentially your body burns its fat stores to preserve lean muscle mass, or vice versa?
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:42 AM   #71
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Chilichugger666 makes the most sense in this thread.

Hunger is not metabolism, endocrinology and hepatology has to do with metabolism but is not.

Counting calories and having an iron will makes you able to lose weight whatever you do (keeping exp>int). Ghrelin is interesting, but overeaters will overeat, hunger isn't usually the biggest drive there.
Brown / beige adipose tissue also has something to do with the "out" as ghrelin has to do with the "in", but the numbers in the equation is what matters.

source // MD
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:10 AM   #72
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Chilichugger666 makes the most sense in this thread.
Not if you care about health, and not just the number on the scale.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:44 AM   #73
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If you have a pill with all the essentials (trace minerals, amino acids) then the body can metabolize everything else and you could live on whipped cream and still be really healthy as long as you count your calories.

You will have an easier time with warm, cooked foods and some vegetables though.

Diets are usually more commercial than healthy.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:52 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Sentic View Post
If you have a pill with all the essentials (trace minerals, amino acids) then the body can metabolize everything else and you could live on whipped cream and still be really healthy as long as you count your calories.
No you can't. Stop polluting this excellent thread with your nonsense.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Just a bit of background. I am currently working 50 hour weeks and taking 3 master's classes. My time is limited so legitimately cooking is hard to do.
I'm stuck in this cycle right now. But I don't have the hour and a half every other day to dedicate to going to the gym. I used to be doing pretty good down to 180 on my 5'8" stubby leg body after doing 2 cycles of p90x back to back at this time last year. But trying to do the p90 diet on a college student budget ended up in one of my main food source being canned chicken, and theres way too damn much sodium and cholesterol in that. Once I graduate the plan is to actually start going to the gym again for a month or two to build the base back up and start doing p90 again.

Right now the diet is
wake up, put on 1 cup of coffee, add 2 spoons of natural cane sugar and a dash of cream
2 clif builder bars
multi-vite, fish oil, glucosamine (because it makes my should not click)
arrive almost last to work

snack, greek yogurt

snack, whatever leftover meat from last night

snack, a sandwich bag full of special k chocolately strawberry cereal, dry

snack, cheese stick 3 or 4, try to mix it up and get different types of cheese

dinner, some sort of meat, lately its been hamburger because its cheap, eat the bun because I'm a *****, I bought all chicken for the next two weeks though.

before bedish
whey protein shake with strawberries and OJ, a few crackers to keep me from wanting to puke it up (yes I understand i should be using casein before bed)

There used to be a salad (50% baby spinach 50% spring mix, none of that crappy sweet lettuce, tomato, and olives, dressing based on olive oil) in that snacks during work, but lately its been making my stomach really pissed off after eating it, so I cut it out.

Water, I was averaging 5-6 32oz bottles at work back when my lunch used to consist of 1 sandwich with 1/2pound of deli meat in it. But now I'm closer to 2-3.

*Edit, Read the fat adapted diet link. It sounds like I am at least mostly. 6-8 hours without food is not too difficult, I'll be hungry for some of that but no noticeable impact. Not like I was at the end of the phase 1 p90 diet. I could go an entire day without eating if I didnt remember to put food into myself because there was almost no sensation of being hungry, except after a workout. I seriously did a 400 calorie day completely by accident and didn't realize it till the next day.

Last edited by Leafy; 04-17-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #76
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LOL @ Sentic and Chilicharger pushing "a calorie is just a calorie" without bothering to understand Dr. Lustig and countless others' arguments.

How hard is it to understand that sugar and starch tend to make you feel hungrier sooner for the same number of calories (than a more fatty meal), and thus tends to make you overeat (i.e. *more calories in*). In contrast if you're fat-adapted and you take fewer % of calories from sugar and starch, you tend to be less hungry (for the same damn caloric input), so it's easier to run a caloric deficit (*fewer calories in*) and stay leaner.

Any of those stupid low-fat calorie-counting diets will make you feel miserable and hungry, and tends to lower your basal metabolic rate (*reduces caloric output*), which is counter-productive. That's why those diets fail. Not because of "lack of discipline".

I used to by somewhat hypoglycemic - got hungry, shakey, and crabby soon after a meal. After some reading, I reduced sugar and starch intake. No stupid calorie-counting and no tasteless, fat-free starchy meals. 15 lbs just melted off in 3 months, (stayed off), without feeling hungry all the time, or miserable, felt better (energy level at an even keel), and can go further between meals, without the shakes.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 04-17-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:35 PM   #77
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This was what I followed:

The Five Rules of The Leptin Diet | Weight Loss News

I modified rule #2 to "4 meals a day on workout day and the day after". I also treated them as *guidelines*, not "rules".
The above rules makes you more "fat-adapted" - Mark Sisson's term.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
wake up, put on 1 cup of coffee, add 2 spoons of natural cane sugar and a

2 clif builder bars

snack, greek yogurt

snack, whatever leftover meat from last night

snack, a sandwich bag full of special k chocolately strawberry cereal, dry

snack, cheese stick 3 or 4, try to mix it up and get different types of cheese

dinner, some sort of meat,

before bedish
whey protein shake with strawberries and OJ,
Too many meals and snacks, and too much sugary drink (e.g. juice), too much grains and processed food (protein bar), and too many meals with starch and no fat (special K cereal).

Drop the juice and eat bread, cereal, grains in general, sparingly.

Eat 3 meals a day (4 on workout day and the next day). Minimum 4 hours between meals. Not even milk in your coffee. 11-12 between dinner and breakfast (no snacks after dinner). It takes >3 hours for your body to switch to burning its fat reserves. If you get hungry before 4 hours, eat less starch and more fat. Then concentrate on not-over-eating, so you have an appetite at next meal time, (but not ravenous).
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #79
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So I am trying to put together a meal plan in order to actually stick to changing up how I eat and I am a little unsure the best way to go about it. I need something that is simple and I can possible make in batches because the easier it is the more likely I will not stray because I am in a rush. I also do not mind eating the same thing over and over. I will mix it up every now and then but I am a creature of habit for the most part.

I am thinking something like this:

Breakfast:
1 large glass of whole milk
2 eggs
bacon (2 pieces?)

Lunch:
Chicken breast
steamed veggies

Snack:
small cup of greek yogurt with honey

Dinner:
Chicken breast/fish/turkey
Steamed veggies
small salad with a full fat dressing

water throughout the day.

I know I can add variety in here but I am not a creative cook and like to buy ingredients in bulk. I will probably just mix it up by seasoning everything differently. Does this sound like a solid plan? Please add anything that I seem to be missing.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 PM   #80
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Breakfast: 16oz. coconut milk (because A: it's the bomb, and because B: lactose free), 1 whole pear, 1/2 cup blueberries, 1/4 avocado, and ice to taste, blended.

Optional ingredients to taste:
Honey
Handful of chia seeds
cinnamon
pure vanilla extract

Snack: ditch the yogurt, grab an apple

Lunch: shredded carrots over a bed of arugula topped with shredded manchego cheese and 1/4 avocado, add pumpkin or sunflower seeds for protein, and extra virgin olive oil for fat. Add a bowl of your favorite soup to finish out lunch

Dinner: steamed broccoli with XV olive oil, mixed with zested orange, chicken / lamb / beef with vegetables

Dessert: dark chocolate, and a glass or two of red wine.
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