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Old 09-21-2017, 04:04 PM   #5781
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^You would think:
CLEANING THE MODERATOR The moderator portion of the Maxim 50 requires limited maintenance after every 50 – 60 rounds. Follow the field assembly steps to remove the barrel from the receiver. Then, run warm water through the barrel alternating from muzzle to breech (13A) and then from breech to muzzle (13B). Continue alternating directions until water runs clear. Pour extremely hot water from muzzle to breech, then breech to muzzle, as a final rinse. Dry barrel thoroughly with patches and allow moderator to air dry completely before use. Barrel should be left with the muzzle pointing up during the drying process to allow all water to run out of the baffles of the moderator. Shoot 5 rounds to ensure the moderator is completely dry. If the moderator and barrel are not fully dry, it may cause rust inside the barrel. Clean the barrel using the steps in FIELD CLEANING, and season the barrel thoroughly.

I love seeing the industry move forward like this. Most major manufacturers are jumping headfirst into the suppressor game in anticipation of the HPA making it into law in whatever form is happens. I've been back and forth about it's chances and have been pretty vocal that the NRA throwing it's efforts behind national reciprocity is a complete waste. The states that don't want it will find a way around it. Just take the new Maxim... within hours of Silencerco announcing release of the product, New York, Cali, and Mass Attorney Generals submitted notice that they would be filing suit to halt distribution in those states... and SC rightfully isn't shipping to those states and providing refunds for people who may have paid.

Even if the HPA passes, states that currently ban suppressors will not see them unbanned... just like states with no reciprocity and are staunchly "may issue" will find some way to reject the ability to carry there. WASTE OF TIME.

And the reason it's a waste for the industry is because national reciprocity is not going to provide the financial boost that the HPA would. When it passes, everybody will want suppressors... EVERYBODY! Anybody who owns a gun will want one or three or fifteen... but nobody is going to go buy 15 carry guns. The HPA has always seemed like very low-hanging fruit and the reciprocity still looks like a pipe dream.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:15 PM   #5782
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Congress can't even pass gas right now...

Pretty sure the HPA is going to be DOA. Which is really disappointing, but then so is Congress...
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:53 PM   #5783
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HPA passed committee last week, and was put on the Union Calendar for the House on the 18th. I haven't been able to find out when on the union calendar, but it's ready for primary discussion and then vote on the house floor. It's a significant part of HB 3668 SHARE act.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:32 PM   #5784
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^Exactly... that's where it is now. The best part is that it passed out of committee with almost no changes... which can be good and bad. Rumors are that the SHARE Act will pass the House relatively unscathed. The problem is getting 60 votes in the Senate to make it filibuster proof. Based on the actions recent years of Democrats staging sit-ins on gun issues, they will attempt to filibuster. You never know what will come of it though, because in the end, everything is give and take, and politicians want to follow the money. However, if the HPA is in the SHARE Act and it makes it to the Senate floor for a vote, it'll pass.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr3668/text

Not that this matters to me since I'm moving to Hawaii in December... but when I'm back in July 2020, this thing is either done or dead.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:46 PM   #5785
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Miata-sized gun:

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Old 09-22-2017, 01:03 PM   #5786
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^Also illegal in Hawaii.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:22 PM   #5787
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Quote:
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^Also illegal in Hawaii.
Well I can hold it for you until you come back to FREEDOM.

I am actually holding some magazines for another mt.net member who moved to Cali for a while. I will ship them back to him when he gets back to a gun friendly state.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:05 AM   #5788
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Moving to Hawaii with guns! So here's what I've found out... it's not so bad (way better than Cali)

The main things are:
Mandatory registration of all firearms with the State.
10rd max capacity for pistol mags.
No carry.
No auto/suppressors/SBR's.
No AR/AK (assault) pistols.

Could be way worse... I live on base, so all my guns get full registered anyways. Since no carry, the 1 pistol I'm taking will likely stay in the safe the whole time so capacity limits not a concern. NO assault weapons bullshit at all... standard mags are cool in rifles. Fully bummed about the no suppressors... if the HPA gets passed, I'll be pissed. However, that may be the impetus to allow suppressors for hunting applications on rifles/shotguns in states that currently don't allow Class-3 at all. Also a little bummed about no AR-pistols... was really looking forward to building a compact 6.8spc for jungle-duty.

Anyways, clearly not taking all my guns... my G19, one AR lower with the 20" 6.8 upper and 16" 5.56 upper, my Savage FVSR .22lr, and a Mossy 930. I've gotta source a field barrel for the 930... or just hit a pawnshop for a used 500.

Also, there are no public shooting ranges on Kauai and the Hawaii Rifle Association has a hit-or-miss reputation.

The good news is that about 1/3 of the island is public hunting lands and there are year-round seasons on just about everything somewhere on the island. Pigs, goats, blacktail, and game-birds cover a big chunk of the island. A lot of it is crazy island jungle and accessible via long hikes through canyons and crazy jungle.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:23 AM   #5789
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Word on the street is that HPA will be passed out of the House as part of SHARE by October. Dunno how things look in the Senate.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:54 PM   #5790
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^Absolutely. The votes are already there.

The bigger issue is the Senate. The votes are there to pass it if it can get to a vote. The problem is that the HPA doesn't have the visibility necessary for a big fight like a new AWB would, or does it? Making it a part of the SHARE Act, and marketing it fully towards the enjoyment of the outdoors by legitimate sportsman simply enjoying what God's hand created on this Earth. It would see a far larger battle if it was a standalone bill.

How many voters are really gonna care enough to pay attention? Nobody has died from suppressors, most people have never even seen one in person, it's difficult to hide or distract from the "hearing protection" aspect... the only thing the anti's have to dance on is the "police won't be able to blah blah blah... when a criminal is shooting with one." The police know that's bullshit, but they'll still have some Police Chief from a Major City stand before Congress and cry that his officers will be in danger blah blah blah...

It remains to be seen how much political capital some Democrats are willing to gain by voting YEA. Republicans know that the HPA will be an ENORMOUS shot-in-the-arm for the firearms industry. A handful of Democrats may see an opportunity (or may be instructed by the party) to vote YEA (and gain points with right-wing constituents) as long as long as the overall vote doesn't get the 60 for fillibuster-proof. And then Democrats from Cali and New York (where they'll still be illegal no matter what happens) fillibuster anyways.

One of my buddies and I were talking the other day. We both agreed that National Reciprocity was dead from the start and would not have passed either house. In not putting it up for a vote, Ryan may be playing behind the scenes to ensure the SHARE Act passes in full despite the opposition (acting) that will likely enfold in the form of a sit-in fillibuster... maybe. If it does get through the Senate without too much craziness, I wonder what the cost was? I don't think "shelve National Reciprocity" in exchange for "not fighting SHARE/HPA" is a fair trade Right to Left.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:19 PM   #5791
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I still dont understand why the democrats havent tried to figure out how to make it s requirement to have a suppressor instead of trying to limit them. Firearms are literally the only loud thing you're allowed to have any more without putting some sort of muffler on it. They already took my cars and my air tools...
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:19 PM   #5792
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I think Adam Savage (but don't quote me on it) once said something to the effect of a gun is almost like an unfinished/incomplete thing without a suppressor. They aren't that complicated, and they work, where normally a single gunshot makes anyone close deaf. Of course the scary lethal potential goes way up, but I'm not sure that's principally different than any other gun and they are already legal at least in some places. CA is funny and it's kind of like with other stuff in that you have to pay. There is a certain bleeding heart liberal aspect to it, but guns are legal here. I don't think you can buy a rocket launcher, or a minigun, or an Uzi at least not without many tax stamps and approval signatures, but I mean splitting hairs you have to draw the line somewhere. There's just some ridiculous cat and mouse game where they keep modifying tiny rules and you have to pay money. Everything is there it's just more expensive. It's like a self sustaining market of little bits and pieces of compliant nonsense like a funny shaped handle or stock. We would be better off without guns but that's not what this is.

Edit: Devil's advocate imagine if a rooftop mass shooter has one.

Last edited by Art; 09-29-2017 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:26 PM   #5793
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^^^^el o el




Lovely evening for a shoot. Shockingly, neither one of us got angry at each other, despite throwing random insults. We survived and we are close to Baltimore. I don't know how we didn't shoot each other.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:01 PM   #5794
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Art, I truly have no idea how to even reply to what you wrote, but please do read this thread more.
I'm positive that we have talked a bit about the realities of shooting with a suppressor.



One shot, one kill.

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Old 09-30-2017, 11:25 PM   #5795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I think Adam Savage (but don't quote me on it) once said something to the effect of a gun is almost like an unfinished/incomplete thing without a suppressor. They aren't that complicated, and they work, where normally a single gunshot makes anyone close deaf. Of course the scary lethal potential goes way up, but I'm not sure that's principally different than any other gun and they are already legal at least in some places. CA is funny and it's kind of like with other stuff in that you have to pay. There is a certain bleeding heart liberal aspect to it, but guns are legal here. I don't think you can buy a rocket launcher, or a minigun, or an Uzi at least not without many tax stamps and approval signatures, but I mean splitting hairs you have to draw the line somewhere. There's just some ridiculous cat and mouse game where they keep modifying tiny rules and you have to pay money. Everything is there it's just more expensive. It's like a self sustaining market of little bits and pieces of compliant nonsense like a funny shaped handle or stock. We would be better off without guns but that's not what this is.
Edit: Devil's advocate imagine if a rooftop mass shooter has one.
I'll have to find where Adam Savage said that... sounds spot on.

As for California, it's not like what you think. Class3 items (machine guns, suppressors, etc...) are legal in MOST states, not "some". However, they have been illegal in Calfiornia for a long time. No amount of money will get you one legally. For normal firearms ownership, the laws implemented last year and going into effect this year, the word "draconian" applies when compared to the rest of the country. California has eliminated the "grandfather" clauses for standard magazines completely (illegal no matter what) and made certain semi-automatic rifles illegal without registration... the whole "pre-ban" concept that made some stuff available-but-more-expensive no longer exists... unless you're a cop, then no rules apply. The rest of the new laws regarding ammunition and other things read like liberal pornography... but it's not the "bleeding heart" liberal aspect since most liberals I know could give a **** less about guns. You will have to ask an actual elected Democrat why they hate guns so much and how their current ideas about how to stop the things that make them hate guns so much are going to work. Good luck getting anything resembling an answer that when you read between the lines doesn't mean "bans, confiscation, and registration". At least Feinstein had the ***** to tell us straight to our faces she was coming for our guns.

As for suppressors... it's likely you've never actually been present when a suppressed weapon was fired and are relying on decades of Hollywood indoctrination regarding just how much noise they reduce. There is still a large amount of noise, which is why the term "silencer" isn't used in industry as it's misleading. An average person who can recognize and localize normal gunfire will not magically have that ability removed with suppressed fire. The argument that police won't be able to tell where the shots are coming from is complete made up bullshit. I will caveat that if a person is shooting an already "quiet" type of ammunition (a subsonic pistol round, for example) from suppressed gun, the distance from which the noise can be heard is less, but assuming you can hear the noise (ie, the shooter isn't in a 3-rd level basement), you will certainly be able to tell where it's coming from. I don't think anybody would argue that in any mass-shooting of memory, the presence of a suppressor would have made any difference in police response time. One of the biggest arguments from the anti's is that police officers will arrive on scene and be running around in circles trying to find an active shooter because they can't hear the gunfire. No self-respecting street cop will tell you that because they know it's bullshit. But the anti's will march out some inner-city appointed police-chief who will swear that gang-bangers will be sneaking around like ninjas ambushing his officers and then disappearing into the shadows like Kaiser Soze. Notice: they're doing that **** now with normal guns.

Normal supersonic rifle ammunition, even the relatively anemic .223 from an AR15 will be easily recognizable from hundreds of yards away. Yes, bolt actions are quieter, I know. Yes, you can buy subsonic .223, I know. Yes, 5.56 is basically the same round, I know. Yes, I voted for that guy, I know.

Please don't panic when you watch this video... it's a black man with a gun... and he has a SILENCER!!! OMG!!!
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:02 PM   #5796
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Oh boy! I wanna join in! Also heard Ryan say that the HPA has been put aside for a bit.


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Old 10-04-2017, 08:41 PM   #5797
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Is that the Troy Alpha? I have one of those on my 5.56 AR. Favorite rail so far. Wife thinks it feels like holding a cheese grater tho. I'm like THE TACTICAL GRIPPING SURFACE IS TOO STRONG FOR YOU.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:43 PM   #5798
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Yes it is! It's the 13" model I think. I absolutely love the feel of it.
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:18 PM   #5799
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Also heard Ryan say that the HPA has been put aside for a bit.
Might be for a long time. I honestly think there's gonna be some sort of gun-laws compromise in the near future. Nov. elections are going to be telling about what's in store for the rest of DJT's term. The GOP is gonna have to give something. I'm sure every Democrat in the country is crafting their very own AWB that will be introduced in every state asap, along with background checks, mag limits, purchase limits, registration, confiscations, etc... it's gonna be a full-court press and the lefty media groups are gonna run it 24/7 for months and months.

It's very surprising to me that with the amount of time and thought that the Las Vegas douchebag put into his crime, that he didn't have suppressors on everything. He certainly had the time and money. I don't think it would have made a difference in any capacity how many people died or police response time, but it certainly would have sunk the HPA forever. If the HPA had passed a year ago, I think it's safe to assume he WOULD have had all the thing suppressed. It certainly doesn't help that Hillary came out within 24hrs and thrown the HPA under the bus, but the fallout from that will have to be considered.

It's also a foregone conclusion that within days of suppressors going OTC, they'll start popping up at crime scenes... totally unavoidable... and the first time a bunch of homies to ambush and kill a cop with one, it'll be throwing dynamite right into the fire. It will happen.

While I support the HPA, I'm definitely scared of the eventualities. A big part of me just wants the wait time for Class3 to go down. Most people I talk to give zero ***** about the $200 pricetag, but what keeps people away is the ATF bullshit. If they got the wait time down to a reasonable 3-4 weeks, it would still keep them fairly elitist while increasing access. I'm actually pretty surprised the NRA and ATF haven't worked this out behind the scenes. I'm serious when I say that suppressors will start showing at crime scenes almost immediately after passage, and the anti's will go apeshit and we'll have no comeback.
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:58 PM   #5800
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I'm with you on that.
My opinion is that we should be working harder to cement the fact that gun ownership is something that normal people enjoy and not go full retard tacticool in everyone's faces.
Of course I know that suppressors aren't magical murder multipliers, but we need to ease into things a bit.
After all, it was only a few years ago that the supreme Court finally decided that firearm ownership was an individual right.
We know the truth about firearms, but the general public doesn't.
Right now we need the general public's support.
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