When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
from that log, it looks like it was idling well on a/c, then you blipped the throttle and turned off the a/c and disrupted everything.... is this correct?
you went really lean when you blipped the throttle, and fueling never really stabilized.
yeah the idle valve is swinging a bit, but it's a 2% swing. I think the fueling swing of 0.5ms of fueling is what's causing it (a 5% swing in the VE value).
notice how smooth it idles when your VE is locked at 60% when the a/c is running, vs when it's off in that log.
I'd probably change my idle ve table to look like this:
and then tune it in real life. Look at your MAP with a/c running, you're only using two rows because you never see map as high as 45kpa with the a/c running, your logs look like you hit a max of about 40kpa.
I see other things like the the a/c idle up duty % is too high. youre idling well above the 1000rpm target and at it's 5% limit to bring the valve back down. Which is surprising because going from 30% idle duty to 40% isn't a whole lot but bumping you up like 350rpm. quick math says use 6% adder instead.
I input that map above and the issue I had was that even turning the lights on would cause issues. So I upped the fueling. Then when I turned AC on things would go SUPER lean and it would go across my new top row which was 45 fuel with fuel cells at 68, 69, 70.5, and 72 at 700, 900,1100, and 1300 rpm respectively. When I went back and looked at logs of what was happening, I realized that the AC starting would push things into a row that wasn't there and trigger a spark advance which would send things going haywire. I.e. the first blip that throws things over the edge when the AC kicks on is the spark moving into a non-idle advance row and causing a spike that the system has a bit of an issue recovering from.
I just want to test out what adjusting timing here will do. If I'm going to do this, is it best to just adjust the few cells in idle or shift the entire timing table over one column to push everything back so the rate of change everywhere remains the same? I know this will change fueling as well, but if anything, I'll likely run a bit richer and I can let VEAL sort it out. I just really want to test and see if this issue is due to the timing advance kicking in at an inopportune moment.
Edit: I'd forgotten to incorporate brain's idle up changes. I saved a map that had all his changes including the ac idle up setting and try to run that first before messing with anything else.
Last edited by ridethecliche; 04-21-2017 at 09:25 PM.
So I stopped trying to futz with things and did exactly as I stated in the edit above. Put in the idle map brain recommended and fixed the AC settings.
I still had to raise the fuel load up to the 45 range and it looks like I might have to go even higher because it dances around the top row with AC on. My fuel numbers are also in the 70s.
There was some discussion on the first or second page about the dead times being too low. Not changing that wouldn't have anything to do with any of this right?
I'm going to try to make the entire table have more range on both axes and see if that helps with this. It's just super hard to tune the fueling when the car isn't even running in the table range. I'm going to keep an eye on temps etc too, to make sure I'm not getting heat soak or anything like that. I might also advance timing all the way over on the left as a sort of failsafe if things start going too low since that should push it over. Saw that in the manual and in figure it's worth a shot if I'm still having issues.
This is definitely something that requires patience haha. Car threatens to stall when reversing or during low speed maneuvers like u turns/k turns.
As a side note: I changed my afr calibration to the numbers from the manual and the number on the gauge and in TS don't match. They're like .2-3 off. Not sure if that's due to a delay or if that's just how it's gong to be. I've been going off the numbers in TS for obvious reasons, but was wondering if it's possible to get them closer.
I believe Brain makes something like a CAN BUS that gives the MS the same reading as the gauge. Or you can tweak the calibration to make up for wiring like I did, but that takes patience too. Are you trying to be am MD or a PhD, MD's need patients.
I'm going to try the default calibration for the x-series on TS and see if that's closer. I feel like it wasn't reading as far off as before. I'll mess with it a bit. From what Brain has written in the past (I searched and read), about a .2 discrepancy is totally reasonable. I followed his instructions and the WB is grounded to his ground from the ecu so atleast that isn't the issue. I'll try to emulate what he did on this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...ght-why-57184/
And ima be the emmm dizzle shizzle fo rizzle y'all. I start 'seeing' peepz in 2 months!
Last edited by ridethecliche; 04-22-2017 at 12:28 PM.
Drove the car around a bunch without a computer plugged in yesterday. Needs a bit of gas to get it idling properly but it's doing pretty well. Fueling still needs a bit of work.
I didn't do this yesterday but I'm looking at the spark table and I see that the timing is advanced to 18 and 14 respectively at the load of 10 and 500 and 800 rpm respectively. I might push 500 and 800 rpm ranges up a bit so it pushes the rpm up a bit if it starts to bog down. I had to keep giving it gas at stop lights in the evening (lights on, heater on, fan on). It was a bit frustrating, but the car didn't die on the road, even though it tried like hell to do so.
I generally put timing at about 17 degrees around idle. This gives plenty of room for idle code of fluctuate spark without causing issues. The guys at DIY originally told me to start there, and it was worked pretty well for me.
I generally put timing at about 17 degrees around idle. This gives plenty of room for idle code of fluctuate spark without causing issues. The guys at DIY originally told me to start there, and it was worked pretty well for me.
Okay, great! So I'm not totally off base for thinking that it would help.
Do you have any input on adjusting the injector dead times? I think the conclusion on the first few pages was that 1 MS for stock injectors was a bit optimistic. I can raise it up to 1.2 or whatnot, but understand that it will likely require adjusting fueling. Given that I'm going to be swapping injectors at some point in the not too distant future, I wonder if it makes a difference.
Would getting the fueling right with the theoretically correct dead time make it easier to get things nailed down after swapping over to bigger injectors? Or does it not make a difference?
I'm going to try advancing the timing a bit in the low end. This is what I'm going to try this evening.
Can brain or anyone else comment on the timing at low load and 4500-7200 rpm? Is there a particular reason that the timing drops down that low in that area?
What's the threshold for knock? I did a couple of logs for pulls yesterday to get some data and figure out some fueling etc and I was looking through the logs this morning and there's a 26% spike in the 'knock in' parameter at about 5500 rpm and over. I'm attaching a couple of logs here and my current tune. They're all very short (just quick pulls).
The car is very drive-able right now. Idle issues have mostly simmered down and the little bit of fuel tuning I did coupled with adding timing in the idle cells seems to have helped a ton. I didn't have any issues with hot restarts etc yesterday either.
Using pump 93.
TLDR: Is this knock in these pulls over 5500 rpm? How do I address this if it is?
There's also something really wonky going on in the 4-27_23.55.30 log... atleast it looked like there was when I put it into virtual dyno. It has a bizarre hump smack dab in the middle.
BPs are noisy tractor motors. It can be hard to tell what is knock and what is noise.
Best way to do it imo is use a conservative spark map, det cans. And then log a full pull. Set your threshold slightly above that, and hope it works lol.
Inducing knock is not an easy thing to test without hurting anything.
Are your knock settings correct for your motor? Are they pulling timing? Did the "knock" go away when you pulled timing from that area.
I assume you're referring to the bump in rpm? Could be you drove over an irregularity in the street. That's nothing to worry about. But what's happening with your AFRs at around 6800rpm?
I haven't messed with timing or anything at all yet. I'm using brain's basemap with changes to timing only around idle and it's his map everywhere else. I've read him talk about his basemap being pretty conservative all around.
The only other changes are to fuel.
I pulled up an old log from the other week where I was working on engine states and I only saw it go up to ~25% when I was doing a pull as well, but it only spiked up that high at about 6500, not the entire 5-6.5k range like it is here.
I have an ms3x with a knock sensor. Are you saying that even that isn't all that accurate at catching knock?
If so... AHHHH!!!!
Originally Posted by stefanst
I assume you're referring to the bump in rpm? Could be you drove over an irregularity in the street. That's nothing to worry about. But what's happening with your AFRs at around 6800rpm?
Nevermind: You're hitting the soft-limiter.
Yup!
Rev limiter set to 7200 with 400rpm hysteresis. I honestly don't wring the cars neck out all that often and it's one of the first things I did when I got the MS3X working. I'm going to keep the RPM limit at 6800 with a 300 hysteresis when I install the FI setup because it makes max power below that from what I know and it should keep the stock rods a bit happier. Mazda did something similar with MSM as far as I'm aware.
04-21-2017, 08:22 PM
0
