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Old 12-06-2011, 02:40 AM   #141
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I'm assuming you guys dyno reclassed the car. Where did the reclass land you? What base class and weight (and max power and torque numbers if that's not still top secret)? The first post in this thread says 148whp but that means comp. weight of 2109lb to be maxed out in PTD.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #142
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I'm assuming you guys dyno reclassed the car. Where did the reclass land you? What base class and weight (and max power and torque numbers if that's not still top secret)? The first post in this thread says 148whp but that means comp. weight of 2109lb to be maxed out in PTD.
They don't allow Miatas anywhere near the 14.25:1 ratio for PTD/TTD. Those numbers are only guidelines.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #143
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What about the water pressure sensor? I had one but it would display that I have 25-30psi all the time - even with the engine off for several days, so I took it off. I had mine on the hose right after the thermostat.
After turning it off for a few days, were the hoses hard to squeeze?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:14 PM   #144
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They don't allow Miatas anywhere near the 14.25:1 ratio for PTD/TTD. Those numbers are only guidelines.
E46 BMW's are another story. Greg Greenbaum will not class a small tired car with a favorable lb/hp ratio into what the books suggests a reasonable classification, which he's stated on more than one occasion. My research shows about a 2.5% hp/lb penalty for us Miatas. Thanks NASA.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:22 PM   #145
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They don't allow Miatas anywhere near the 14.25:1 ratio for PTD/TTD. Those numbers are only guidelines.
+1. it is ~15:1.

pls understand Miata/MX5 took 10 of possible 18 podiums at T25 according to NASA.
in reality. one of the class is ESR, Miata can't even run there. another is the top tier ES class, more of prototype and Cup car class, Miata don't run there. so basically, Miata/MX5 won 10 of "possible" 12 podiums.

so no, I don't think weight/hp ratio is going down anytime soon..
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:49 PM   #146
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E46 BMW's are another story. Greg Greenbaum will not class a small tired car with a favorable lb/hp ratio into what the books suggests a reasonable classification, which he's stated on more than one occasion. My research shows about a 2.5% hp/lb penalty for us Miatas. Thanks NASA.
Not sure what you're complaining about. In sprint races, we have a few hp to spare. In the 3 hr enduro's we have a lot to spare. In the 25, we could have spotted our competition about 15whp (>10%) and still won even if they had zero problems.

Notice how many Miatas win NASA classes in sprints, TT, 3hr and the 25?
If Greg will give us the same few % lbs/hp penalty for an E1 or E0 Miata, we'll happily accept it.

Last edited by emilio700; 12-06-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:16 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
+1. it is ~15:1.

pls understand Miata/MX5 took 10 of possible 18 podiums at T25 according to NASA.
in reality. one of the class is ESR, Miata can't even run there. another is the top tier ES class, more of prototype and Cup car class, Miata don't run there. so basically, Miata/MX5 won 10 of "possible" 12 podiums.

so no, I don't think weight/hp ratio is going down anytime soon..
How about a turbo Miata built to more of GT car spec simi tube chassis running on GT2 size slicks, could you run that in ES? Iím not that familiar with NASA rules.

Bob
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:25 PM   #148
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^ I know that this is MT, but honestly to be competitive in ES the car would need at least 350-400whp, and over 25hrs, I don't see a 400hp Miata engine being reliable enough. I know that there are some super reliable engines on here, but I doubt that you could go in with any sort of confidence that the motor and trans would hols up for the full 25. If you wanted to do an ES T25 car I see an LS1/2 motor being the way to go. It wouldn't even break a sweat at 400hp, and as long as the oiling system was improved upon, I would expect a GOOD swap job to last the 25. And having Keith teamed up with us for this one, I could see FM and 949 doing a joint car.

That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:36 PM   #149
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^ I know that this is MT, but honestly to be competitive in ES the car would need at least 350-400whp, and over 25hrs, I don't see a 400hp Miata engine being reliable enough. I know that there are some super reliable engines on here, but I doubt that you could go in with any sort of confidence that the motor and trans would hols up for the full 25. If you wanted to do an ES T25 car I see an LS1/2 motor being the way to go. It wouldn't even break a sweat at 400hp, and as long as the oiling system was improved upon, I would expect a GOOD swap job to last the 25. And having Keith teamed up with us for this one, I could see FM and 949 doing a joint car.

That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
Honestly I think Thunderhill is about as easy as it gets on the powertrain for a turbo car. The track is mostly about cornering speed and maintaining speed. Just need enough power to sufficiently overcome aero drag at high speed I’m guessing 300 might be sufficient to be in the ballpark for lap time with enough extra grip from tires and aero work. It aint gunna happen on 225 DOT tires though.

Bob
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:49 PM   #150
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Not sure what you're complaining about. In sprint races, we have a few hp to spare. In the 3 hr enduro's we have a lot to spare. In the 25, we could have spotted our competition about 15whp (>10%) and still won even if they had zero problems.

Notice how many Miatas win NASA classes in sprints, TT, 3hr and the 25?
If Greg will give us the same few % lbs/hp penalty for an E1 or E0 Miata, we'll happily accept it.
I think I've bitched and moaned enough that I've effectively cried a river that I can sail down next season. I was pretty pissed all season to take second to a guy 5-10 seconds faster in TTB. I suppose my issue is not with the points against Miatas because we had a tight-pack in TTB this year if you exclude the car that didn't pass TTB tech at nationals. When you factor in the 20+ tires he won last year, in a car that didn't make it through national's tech, it rubs salt in the wound.

Maybe the formula is right for Miatas, it's the E46 M3 formula that's flawed. I'll shut up now to not thread drift.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:09 PM   #151
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we have been on the wrong tires (not on hoosiers) or not driving good enough. If that e46 had been at TWS last week i would have spanked him.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:03 PM   #152
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How about a turbo Miata built to more of GT car spec simi tube chassis running on GT2 size slicks, could you run that in ES? Iím not that familiar with NASA rules.

Bob
Miata drivers might be getting a little too cocky. in ES, you will be racing against these:

http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...es/image9.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image12.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image18.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image13.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image13.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...es/image7.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image10.html

most of them have air jacks, carrying 44 gallon tanks.
E0/1/2/3 have similar rules, like only 10 gallons per stop, no air jack, no pressurized fuel delivery. ES is pretty much open.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:11 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
Miata drivers might be getting a little too cocky. in ES, you will be racing against these:

most of them have air jacks, carrying 44 gallon tanks.
E0/1/2/3 have similar rules, like only 10 gallons per stop, no air jack, no pressurized fuel delivery. ES is pretty much open.
6 second pit stops for 30-40 gallons and 4 tires. E0 is a huge step. ES is a 200K Miata and that ain't exaggeration. For that coin I would buy a few year old GT3 cup car for 75-90k, spend maybe 50K getting in prepped, a few gentleman drivers writing 40k checks and a corporate sponsor to cover the rest.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:03 PM   #154
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we have been on the wrong tires (not on hoosiers) or not driving good enough. If that e46 had been at TWS last week i would have spanked him.
You're in TTA, lol.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:06 PM   #155
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Not really, he runs TTA not to get hasseled.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:28 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
6 second pit stops for 30-40 gallons and 4 tires. E0 is a huge step. ES is a 200K Miata and that ain't exaggeration. For that coin I would buy a few year old GT3 cup car for 75-90k, spend maybe 50K getting in prepped, a few gentleman drivers writing 40k checks and a corporate sponsor to cover the rest.
Ok maybe I said the wrong class. The prototype sports racers are ESR though. And it looks to me like the car I want to build would only fit in ES based on the rules however the other classes all pretty much require DOT tires.

I would definitely be up for helping out as crew for you guys at the 25 next year.

Bob
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:41 AM   #157
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6 second pit stops for 30-40 gallons and 4 tires. E0 is a huge step. ES is a 200K Miata and that ain't exaggeration. For that coin I would buy a few year old GT3 cup car for 75-90k, spend maybe 50K getting in prepped, a few gentleman drivers writing 40k checks and a corporate sponsor to cover the rest.
Exactly. Until someone finds an extra 1/4-1/2 million dollars that they want to make disappear, I would guess that a competitive ES car is out of the question. So with that in mind, is there even a point in running a faster car? If we solved the mechanical issues that stopped crusher from winning in class, (which would be easy) it could have completed an extra 10-19 laps depending on how many mechanical issues we fixed. That would have put us potentially as high as 7th overall. Even as it finished, we could have put Enzo in any class other than ES and won. (Though that E0 #100 car probably would not have sat in the pits as long as it did had it actually been racing someone.)

So really the question must be asked, is more power even really needed. I think that the reason the E2/3 cars do so well compared to the E0/1 cars is that they are so much better on fuel/tires/reliability. So running an E0/1 car would probably cost a ton more money, and likely not end with a better or more impressive result.

The only realistic result that I could see would be getting a top 5 or possibly even top 3 overall with a very well built E0/1 car as long as it somehow made it through without any mechanical issues. As for an overall win, I don't see and "privateer" team taking down Mercer. (they beat everyone by at least 48 laps) Though I would love to see the chevy C6r team come out just to **** off the Mercer boys...

Whatever the future brings, I am excited to see what happens, and hope to play a role next year as well.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:43 AM   #158
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Ok maybe I said the wrong class. The prototype sports racers are ESR though. And it looks to me like the car I want to build would only fit in ES based on the rules however the other classes all pretty much require DOT tires.

I would definitely be up for helping out as crew for you guys at the 25 next year.
Hell, they could just run your car on a more mild tune, and as long as everything held up for the full 25 (which we have no reason to assume it wouldn't) it would be a force to be reckoned with. It certainly would have a good shot at pole position in whatever class it ran outside of ES.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:48 AM   #159
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Hell, they could just run your car on a more mild tune, and as long as everything held up for the full 25 (which we have no reason to assume it wouldn't) it would be a force to be reckoned with. It certainly would have a good shot at pole position in whatever class it ran outside of ES.
BTW, who the **** are you?
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:55 AM   #160
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^ I was surprised that this wasn't the response that I got when I asked if they needed/wanted help with the T25...

My name is Chris, and apparently I fooled everyone into thinking that I know a lot about Miatas...
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