Crusher
12-06-2011, 01:40 AM
#141
I'm assuming you guys dyno reclassed the car. Where did the reclass land you? What base class and weight (and max power and torque numbers if that's not still top secret)? The first post in this thread says 148whp but that means comp. weight of 2109lb to be maxed out in PTD.
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12-06-2011, 08:12 AM
#142
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I'm assuming you guys dyno reclassed the car. Where did the reclass land you? What base class and weight (and max power and torque numbers if that's not still top secret)? The first post in this thread says 148whp but that means comp. weight of 2109lb to be maxed out in PTD.
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12-06-2011, 12:14 PM
#144
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E46 BMW's are another story. Greg Greenbaum will not class a small tired car with a favorable lb/hp ratio into what the books suggests a reasonable classification, which he's stated on more than one occasion. My research shows about a 2.5% hp/lb penalty for us Miatas. Thanks NASA.
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12-06-2011, 12:22 PM
#145
pls understand Miata/MX5 took 10 of possible 18 podiums at T25 according to NASA.
in reality. one of the class is ESR, Miata can't even run there. another is the top tier ES class, more of prototype and Cup car class, Miata don't run there. so basically, Miata/MX5 won 10 of "possible" 12 podiums.
so no, I don't think weight/hp ratio is going down anytime soon..
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12-06-2011, 12:49 PM
#146
E46 BMW's are another story. Greg Greenbaum will not class a small tired car with a favorable lb/hp ratio into what the books suggests a reasonable classification, which he's stated on more than one occasion. My research shows about a 2.5% hp/lb penalty for us Miatas. Thanks NASA.
Notice how many Miatas win NASA classes in sprints, TT, 3hr and the 25?
If Greg will give us the same few % lbs/hp penalty for an E1 or E0 Miata, we'll happily accept it.
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Last edited by emilio700; 12-06-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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12-06-2011, 01:16 PM
#147
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+1. it is ~15:1.
pls understand Miata/MX5 took 10 of possible 18 podiums at T25 according to NASA.
in reality. one of the class is ESR, Miata can't even run there. another is the top tier ES class, more of prototype and Cup car class, Miata don't run there. so basically, Miata/MX5 won 10 of "possible" 12 podiums.
so no, I don't think weight/hp ratio is going down anytime soon..
pls understand Miata/MX5 took 10 of possible 18 podiums at T25 according to NASA.
in reality. one of the class is ESR, Miata can't even run there. another is the top tier ES class, more of prototype and Cup car class, Miata don't run there. so basically, Miata/MX5 won 10 of "possible" 12 podiums.
so no, I don't think weight/hp ratio is going down anytime soon..
Bob
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12-06-2011, 01:25 PM
#148
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^ I know that this is MT, but honestly to be competitive in ES the car would need at least 350-400whp, and over 25hrs, I don't see a 400hp Miata engine being reliable enough. I know that there are some super reliable engines on here, but I doubt that you could go in with any sort of confidence that the motor and trans would hols up for the full 25. If you wanted to do an ES T25 car I see an LS1/2 motor being the way to go. It wouldn't even break a sweat at 400hp, and as long as the oiling system was improved upon, I would expect a GOOD swap job to last the 25. And having Keith teamed up with us for this one, I could see FM and 949 doing a joint car.
That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
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12-06-2011, 05:36 PM
#149
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^ I know that this is MT, but honestly to be competitive in ES the car would need at least 350-400whp, and over 25hrs, I don't see a 400hp Miata engine being reliable enough. I know that there are some super reliable engines on here, but I doubt that you could go in with any sort of confidence that the motor and trans would hols up for the full 25. If you wanted to do an ES T25 car I see an LS1/2 motor being the way to go. It wouldn't even break a sweat at 400hp, and as long as the oiling system was improved upon, I would expect a GOOD swap job to last the 25. And having Keith teamed up with us for this one, I could see FM and 949 doing a joint car.
That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
That is purely my opinion though, and honestly I don't know all that much about turbo Miatas. I only signed up here because there was a good discussion going on, and I had run out of views.
Bob
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12-06-2011, 05:49 PM
#150
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Not sure what you're complaining about. In sprint races, we have a few hp to spare. In the 3 hr enduro's we have a lot to spare. In the 25, we could have spotted our competition about 15whp (>10%) and still won even if they had zero problems.
Notice how many Miatas win NASA classes in sprints, TT, 3hr and the 25?
If Greg will give us the same few % lbs/hp penalty for an E1 or E0 Miata, we'll happily accept it.
Notice how many Miatas win NASA classes in sprints, TT, 3hr and the 25?
If Greg will give us the same few % lbs/hp penalty for an E1 or E0 Miata, we'll happily accept it.
Maybe the formula is right for Miatas, it's the E46 M3 formula that's flawed. I'll shut up now to not thread drift.
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12-06-2011, 08:03 PM
#152
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...es/image9.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image12.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image18.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image13.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image13.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...es/image7.html
http://www.gotbluemilk.com/web111203...s/image10.html
most of them have air jacks, carrying 44 gallon tanks.
E0/1/2/3 have similar rules, like only 10 gallons per stop, no air jack, no pressurized fuel delivery. ES is pretty much open.
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12-06-2011, 08:11 PM
#153
Miata drivers might be getting a little too cocky. in ES, you will be racing against these:
most of them have air jacks, carrying 44 gallon tanks.
E0/1/2/3 have similar rules, like only 10 gallons per stop, no air jack, no pressurized fuel delivery. ES is pretty much open.
most of them have air jacks, carrying 44 gallon tanks.
E0/1/2/3 have similar rules, like only 10 gallons per stop, no air jack, no pressurized fuel delivery. ES is pretty much open.
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12-07-2011, 12:28 AM
#156
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6 second pit stops for 30-40 gallons and 4 tires. E0 is a huge step. ES is a 200K Miata and that ain't exaggeration. For that coin I would buy a few year old GT3 cup car for 75-90k, spend maybe 50K getting in prepped, a few gentleman drivers writing 40k checks and a corporate sponsor to cover the rest.
I would definitely be up for helping out as crew for you guys at the 25 next year.
Bob
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12-07-2011, 12:41 AM
#157
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6 second pit stops for 30-40 gallons and 4 tires. E0 is a huge step. ES is a 200K Miata and that ain't exaggeration. For that coin I would buy a few year old GT3 cup car for 75-90k, spend maybe 50K getting in prepped, a few gentleman drivers writing 40k checks and a corporate sponsor to cover the rest.
So really the question must be asked, is more power even really needed. I think that the reason the E2/3 cars do so well compared to the E0/1 cars is that they are so much better on fuel/tires/reliability. So running an E0/1 car would probably cost a ton more money, and likely not end with a better or more impressive result.
The only realistic result that I could see would be getting a top 5 or possibly even top 3 overall with a very well built E0/1 car as long as it somehow made it through without any mechanical issues. As for an overall win, I don't see and "privateer" team taking down Mercer. (they beat everyone by at least 48 laps) Though I would love to see the chevy C6r team come out just to **** off the Mercer boys...
Whatever the future brings, I am excited to see what happens, and hope to play a role next year as well.
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12-07-2011, 12:43 AM
#158
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Ok maybe I said the wrong class. The prototype sports racers are ESR though. And it looks to me like the car I want to build would only fit in ES based on the rules however the other classes all pretty much require DOT tires.
I would definitely be up for helping out as crew for you guys at the 25 next year.
I would definitely be up for helping out as crew for you guys at the 25 next year.
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12-07-2011, 12:48 AM
#159
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Hell, they could just run your car on a more mild tune, and as long as everything held up for the full 25 (which we have no reason to assume it wouldn't) it would be a force to be reckoned with. It certainly would have a good shot at pole position in whatever class it ran outside of ES.
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