TDR Rotrex Update with Dyno Charts! - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-23-2015, 05:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by AnnorexicRoadster View Post
The amount of time it takes to fine tune idle, cold start, and power maps to all run as smooth as OEM takes time even with a knowledgeable tuner.

what happens if someone uses a powercard on a turbo setup... does that invalidate your argument?

cause im pretty sure we all here know that a turbo doesn't change cold-start issues.


I'm willing to trade off 10-15hp here and these for compromises, but to trade off 50-60-70 rwtq because 30minutes to remove a turbo setup is too long, is kinda crazy.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:11 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
what happens if someone uses a powercard on a turbo setup... does that invalidate your argument?

cause im pretty sure we all here know that a turbo doesn't change cold-start issues.


I'm willing to trade off 10-15hp here and these for compromises, but to trade off 50-60-70 rwtq because 30minutes to remove a turbo setup is too long, is kinda crazy.
In a turbo I completely agree with you. But this isn't a turbo, this is a rotrex thread, in a supercharger section. In this case my point is valid.

People go to a rotrex vs turbo for more reliability, less intrusive install. Up the a certain power level the piggyback follows the same philosophy.

Turbos dont change cold start issues but I have yet to see a megasquirt have the same cold start characteristics as an oem ecu in a broad range of temperatures. They can get close, but not as good. The ones that get close to oem spend a good time fiddling with their cold start maps, something you dont need to do with a powercard.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:12 PM   #63
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Wait. Since when have we had a stupidcharger forum?
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:27 PM   #64
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Since turbocharging a track Miata means taking a second mortgage out on your house. Heck most of the turbo guys could by a turbo Porsche for what they have $$$$ into their Miata.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:47 PM   #65
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False. You can do a reliable 200hp all day long for not much more than a stupidcharger kit. Trying to make 300+ yeah, that might be a second mortgage.

Buy andrews kit for 5000. Profit.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:48 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I'm willing to trade off 10-15hp here and these for compromises, but to trade off 50-60-70 rwtq because 30minutes to remove a turbo setup is too long, is kinda crazy.
I'm the same way, that's too big of a compromise in torque for my liking. If there's a way to put a bigger Rotrex and make 400whp/300wtq, I might get rid of my whipple...

I still think they're going to sell a lot of these kits though, there is a market for this.

And I have read the Rotrex kits in the past had good track reliability. No personal experience with them, but if that's true, that's a huge plus.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:50 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
False. You can do a reliable 200hp all day long for not much more than a stupidcharger kit. Trying to make 300+ yeah, that might be a second mortgage.

Buy andrews kit for 5000. Profit.
He didn't say the track guys that run 4 PSI boost on the track. I don't know of many budget built 300+whp turbo miatas that are stone reliable on the track. Pretty sure Sav has posted that combo gets quite expensive to be reliable.
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:56 PM   #68
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I don't see 300+hp on any of those rotrex dynos either though...
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:13 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
It's not homework it's you pulling stuff out of your butt and calling it a fact
Vlad, Emilio himself had many threads on m.net back in the day extolling the virtues of the Rotrex when the Kraftwerks kit first came out. He specifically said the Rotrex was allowing them to run more timing and more compression than would be typical for a turbo at that power level.

I know you hate m.net, so do you really want me to look up those threads?
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Vlad, Emilio himself had many threads on m.net back in the day extolling the virtues of the Rotrex when the Kraftwerks kit first came out. He specifically said the Rotrex was allowing them to run more timing and more compression than would be typical for a turbo at that power level.

I know you hate m.net, so do you really want me to look up those threads?
It's physics. If he doesn't want to believe it that's fine.
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:29 PM   #71
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I did Rotrex because it allowed me to keep my NA exhaust and it has the the least heat issues for F/I cars on track. Also I can reliably run stock long blocks and not worry about rods etc.

I'll be very curious to see if the trackspeed kit coming out increases the number of turbo track miatas... My guess is that 300 hp on track cars is going to make a lot of issues regardless of who/what makes the power.



If I wanted a fast street car I'd go (FM2 Kit) turbo.
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:55 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
Vlad, Emilio himself had many threads on m.net back in the day extolling the virtues of the Rotrex when the Kraftwerks kit first came out. He specifically said the Rotrex was allowing them to run more timing and more compression than would be typical for a turbo at that power level.

I know you hate m.net, so do you really want me to look up those threads?
Nope, because you're completely missing the point. This is about more timing and leaner afr's. This assumes same power output. I'll let you both figure out where I'm going with this. (pro-tip: aidan kinda made my point)

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It's physics. If he doesn't want to believe it that's fine.
Can you give me lessons? Make sure you're sitting in an armchair.

Last edited by 18psi; 10-23-2015 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Does anyone know if they will produce a semi DIY kit?

SC, bracket and pulley system, oiling and cooling system etc?

I'd like to reuse my megasquirt, injectors, etc. and do my own IC and piping set up to save some pennies.
We will be glad to work with all in making our TDR Rotrex kit work for you. If you any components from our system to upgrade, just let me know.

Gary
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:28 PM   #74
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I don't see 300+hp on any of those rotrex dynos either though...

yet....
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:44 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I don't see 300+hp on any of those rotrex dynos either though...
295whp with a C30-74, 99 built motor and E85. I wonder what the C30-94 would do?

Why all the hating? The Rotrex has it's place in the Miata world. It's fantastic on the track. Dead nuts reliable. I can also see why it would accept more timing without turbine back pressure.

FWIW I am also a turbo fan but prefer them on the street. On the track I like the razor sharp throttle response of the Rotrex.
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TDR Rotrex Update with Dyno Charts!-295-whp-dyno-2.jpg  

Last edited by k24madness; 11-11-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:31 AM   #76
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^and that dyno reads super low.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:39 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
False. You can do a reliable 200hp all day long for not much more than a stupidcharger kit. Trying to make 300+ yeah, that might be a second mortgage.

Buy andrews kit for 5000. Profit.
Keep in mind that the TSE kit is juuuuust now becoming a reality. There's two decades of history of turbos going on Miatas then going to the track and breaking everything and throwing more and more money at the situation prior to this. Many rage-quit and moved on to naturally aspirated, some worked out all the kinks and ended up with semi-reliable turbo track cars. With TSE's option, the future is bright, but don't forget the bumpy road it took to get here.

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Originally Posted by black roadster View Post
Yes. These were all stock motors. TDR has a track car with a fully built motor running MegaSquirt. They will be getting it dynoed ASAP.
New build that has yet to hit the track in that config or is it currently running around on the track but has not been dyno tuned? If the former, in for results. If the latter, for shame.

Last edited by ThePass; 11-16-2015 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:41 PM   #78
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But 180-200hp on a turbo reliably isn't that hard. You did it on a greddy kit on a 1.6 for years.

Yes, 300whp turbo cars are going to break stuff on track.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:57 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
But 180-200hp on a turbo reliably isn't that hard. You did it on a greddy kit on a 1.6 for years.
Quite literally, at one point or another, I've broken every single part that came in that original kit. I've also gone through two major overhauls of the entire configuration in search of improving temperatures in every system (heat is the #1 enemy). There's nothing left as intended by Greddy but the turbo and manifold (on my 3rd manifold).

Now it's reliable and can run non-stop in the heat. But it took 6 years to get there.
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:01 PM   #80
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Alright, maybe a greddy kit wasn't the best example. But log manifold+low boost+good cooling+inconel=fun.
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