mrmonk7663

iTrader: (9)

Depends on what you do and what brands. And also what you do about tophats will make a difference. To do it like Thenones I made using the same manufacturers you are about 450-500 for everything. Use cheaper bumpstops and stock tophats and and you can be under 300.

Nicolas L

No longer, that's where I ordered from. The B6 are set for September, not guaranteed, the B8 for the 28th, not guaranteed either.

Hmmm. I did see the difference in the lenght of the usable shaft (the length seems to be equal, just that the threaded part is longer). I don't have a specsheet for both of them to know, but now I'm conflicted.

Do you know the length of the usable shaft in the B8? I guess what I'm looking for is how much does the shaft go into the shock when the car is on the floor to kinda find out how much droop travel I'd have.
I assume no one has issues with the shaft bottoming out in the shock before it becomes a problem with the rest of the suspension (control arm, bump stop, coil binding) correct? In that case I might change for the B6 and bite it on the extra wait :/
I imagine droop is important in turns to not have the inside wheels in the air, or to not lose traction at the top of a hill/up-ramp.

I could also buy some MSM silvers for $200, but they have 140000mi on them... I know bilsteins last longer, but 120000mi longer?

ThePanduuh

they are estimated dates on summit, but obviously placing an order is the only way to get them fastest. the 28th is the beginning of next week. if you REALLY need them you can contact Advance Autosport or some other SpecMiata suspension distributors and see if they have any in stock. You'll be paying ~$15 more per shock.

and I found a set of MSM for $275 with unknown miles, but $400 for new bilsteins seems worth it to me. this way you're not getting someone's beat up seconds. they'd have to be sub $200 for me to really consider it. rust and age catches up.

Nicolas L

They do seem super clean, no rust, but I care about internals and oil age more than looks tbh, I'm not trusting that.
NA Bilsteins are available, and cheaper, is this a **** option? I imagine they have to be better than my blown AGX (don't even wanna drive the car because of them, therefore the hurry), but since I'm buying and the car is not a daily, I could wait for better.

ThePanduuh

I'm not exactly "qualified" to answer, but if it's not a daily, wait it out. I'm spending my winter saving for parts and acquiring them slowly. So personally, I'm waiting for NB B8's. I'm on stock suspension from the 90's, I feel your pain. It's basically a Jetson's car cause it floats everywhere.

sometorque

iTrader: (1)

Awesome thread! I've been digesting this thread for a few days now and based off the consensus on the forums, it seems to be DIY billies at <$1k or Xidas and that everything else is "meh"

With that said, wanted to run this one by this thread. My MSM bilsteins have 106k miles on them. They look fine however and no obvious signs of leak or anything indicating they're failing. In the interest of not having to tear it all apart again and send shocks out for a rebuild does it inherently make sense to go this route or with this kind of mileage should i just pony up for a set of Xidas?

Bilstein seems to do rebuilds on them for about a bill a shock from my own research. Thinking of this from the perspective of spending $300-400 + another $400 for a hypothetical rebuild if they fail, which puts me a few bills away from a set of Xidas which are an upgrade from this in many respects. Car will see track time, but but primarily be a weekend toy. Thanks!

mrmonk7663

iTrader: (9)

Junkwhale

The Bilsteins are pretty durable. Check there's no obvious leaks, that the shafts are in good condition with no big scratches, rust, bends or other damage, and they have decent gas pressure (they come back up of their own accord when you compress them all the way down- should take considerable effort to compress too). If all of that is fine and they're not rusting away or anything, they're almost definitely good to go.

sometorque

iTrader: (1)

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback. The previous poster mentioned picking up a spare set of shocks and I'm leaning that route since there's a set of MSM billies not too far away for about $200. Mulling that over now while I polish off this bottle of Glenlivet lol.

One question I wanted to clarify (and apologies if I'm asking to be spoonfed). I've seen mentions of extended top hats being recommended on account of the MSM shocks being a bit longer than others. Seems that you can get away with the stock tophats at moderate heights but when going lower, you're effectively resting or are pretty close to hitting the stops. I'm assuming you can cut the stops to some degree to alleviate this, but I have to imagine there's a minimum amount of bumpstop that you want to have.

With that said, my question is this: is there some sort of ballpark range in terms of how low you can go on the stock top hats and a sort of "line in the sand" as to when you'd want to go with extended top hats? Also, if cutting the bumpstops, is there a minimum amount of stop you'd want to have?

I suppose I can just go with the stock top hats for now and feel it out, but figuring this out would probably make this a bit easier vs disassembling stuff a few times. Appreciate all the feedback, as I'm slowly making sense of this thread.

Junkwhale

The MSMs are exactly the same length as the OEM NB bilsteins ("Hard S") and the OTS NB Sport bilsteins. Body is the same, shaft length is the same, circlip position is the same. I've had MSM's and the OEM sitting side by side to confirm.

Any kind of lowering will benefit from extended top hats when using NB bilsteins due to the shock length - the rear especially. It will ride better with more usuable suspension stroke. The Maruha top hats are prob the best budget option at the moment.

No one can answer the bumpstop question for you, as your combo of car / tophats / wheel diameter / control arms / fenders will result in slightly different available travel. So, you have to put the shock in without the spring, then raise the wheel on a jack till it makes contact with something. If that something is a bumpstop, you can shorten it a bit. If that something is your wheel hitting the tub, you've gone too far.

sometorque

iTrader: (1)

Yep. That's what I've started realizing in digging around. I think I'll end up with the Maruha top hats, since i'd rather just have them in vs. putting it all together only to realize i'm on the bumpstops or the wheel is hitting the tub.

Have a bit of direction now to start this project. Thanks.

Nicolas L

I'm about done waiting for Summit and I rather not spend $100 extra somewhere else bc budget.
How much shittiter would my life be with 450/300 and NA B6s? The circlip seems to be lower so I might even avoid cutting the 5" sleeve (totally out of my *** I have no clue).
I got me 225 tires and I can't drive the car with these **** shocks to the fender roller guy if I wanna make it there with them intact lol.

I'm also aware that I'd have to get that ******* weird nut to go on the shaft bc the shaft in the NA is uncircumcised, other than that, are they **** valving?

HOLD UP. The NA shocks are shorter right? Has anyone mixed NA Shocks in the back, NB in the front? More travel stuff?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

What are you waiting for from Summit? You are ranting like you are drunk.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

You don't want to use NA shocks. The difference in how the shaft is threaded will cause more cost/frustration later.

Nicolas L

Shocks, and maybe.
Ok then, it's settled. No more questions.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

I have a question for the billie gurus here. I'm putting together a DIY billie setup. I'm going to be using Bilstein HD NB shocks, ISC tophats, FCM bumpstops, and now I'm looking to decide on on a springrate. I drive about 2 miles of dirt road every day, which is by far the most annoying part of actually driving my car. The roads around here are also very rural with lots of patches and potholes, but I like to hit the twisties and occasionally the track on the weekend. I'm looking for maximum comfort for a DD while still being able to track the car a few times a year.

I'm thinking the solution is going to be a lower spring rate with stiffer sway bars. Does anyone have suggestions on springrates for my setup? Leaning towards a 375/250, or something similar to FM spring rates.

HarryB

Had the same requirements as you; these were the exact rates I was set on as well. Never had the chance to actually test these myself, but they were installed in another NB seeing the same use, and the feedback was excellent. Stock ARBs though.

Bronson M

iTrader: (1)

Personal opinion here, but relying on a heavy bar and soft springs is not going to get you where you want to be.

Let's talk theory for a second, let's say you get the same wheel rate in a turn as a heavy rate spring but with soft springs and big bars. When you hit a road imperfection like a pot hole you're only hitting it with one wheel (unless you're in WV) so you'll be feeling the whole combined rate of the spring and sway bar. Big smooth dips, yeah you'll be on the springs only. The other downside to a big bar light spring setup is massive amounts of brake dive.

I hate to say it but you have to compromise one or the other to maximize comfort or performance. Good shocks do make the higher rate springs more tolerable but we're in the DIY Bilstein thread.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Fire,

I think for a long commute with 4 miles of dirt road (minimum) every round trip those will be decent spring rates *if* you increase your ride height to compensate. I say that because a 700 rate spring with 1in of travel before contacting the bumpstops will carry the same force as a 350 rate spring with 2in before the bumpstops.

I also have used 450/275 personally (had a bigger rear sway relative the front hence the lower rear rate - 1in and 5/8in adjustable sways f/r) and found it to be a good dual duty ride but a little tail happy.

I also know you drive on unplowed snowy mountain roads and will need to keep the ride height up some. I would think 5.5/5.75 or 5.75/6.0in pinch weld heights would be dirt road compliant and snow ready with plenty of control for the mountain roads with NB Billies. Bumpstop length and density may require some experiments. Softer is probably better. I would use 1in or greater extended rear tophats.

I wouldn't go over 1in with the front bar for fear of cross-corner unloading of one rear tire if you turn around in a ditch, though. Travel and compliance is your friend. My current 550/350 combo required pushing by hand once recently because of the lack of contact for one rear tire.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the input everyone. A few thoughts:

• My current suspension utilizes the "standard" rate ground control kit for miatas. 375/250.
• It rides like garbage, mainly over washboard and down my dirt road.
• I'm running them with stock NA tophats and NA KYB AGX shocks.
• I drive a total of 2 miles of dirt, not 4. It's about 1 mile each way. It's not unbearable, but it is by far the least enjoyable part of driving my car every day.
• No plans to really drive this car in the snow much. That's what my GTX is for.

My next thought is, maybe my spring rates aren't so bad and I just need better dampeners. I know AGX are garbage and can't really handle these spring rates appropriately. I'm now leaning towards keeping the coilover setup and moving them over to the billies with ISC 1/1.5" tophats, and seeing if that gets me where I want.

I'll probably keep stock swaybars, thanks for pointing out how they work Bronson. I had it backwards in my head. I thought both spring rates were applied only when cornering, and that one wheel dropping into a pothole would keep it's single rate. Now that I think about it, it makes more sense the way you described it.

And yes, there will of course be compromise. I'm fine with that, I just wanna keep driving my 'yata every day. Since getting it back on the road it's brought so much joy to my life, just seeing that ratty little beast parked outside at work makes me smile.