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Price is really close between TSM and Maruha, but I would get Maruha any day over any extended top hat I have seen, minus certain machined from billet options.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I just emailed Maruha for a quote for 4 of the mounts.
I am going to go with the 450/300 spring rates for that plush ride. Here's my Kitty as a thank you
Another Tampa guy. Yes, you will need the plush ride in Tampa's streets. And plenty of available bump travel. You will definitely need the extended tophats.
Did you post a "Meet and Greet" thread in that section? There are several of us in your area.
Just paid for 4x Maruha 20mm Top Hats, cost 172$ shipped to Tampa
I went through and updated my parts list to QA1 springs to help prevent spring binding, added another set of Coil Spring Isolators, and halved the number of spring washers (As I believe they aren't needed at the top of the spring due to the Isolators being glued to the Maruha Tophat, correct me if I am wrong?) I am using Hard S Shocks.
I believe this is the correct order for everything to be assembled in, could someone go through this and make sure its correct? I read through the entire thread a few times but sometimes the fender washer location varies per person.
- OEM 14mm Nut (Torque to 24 ft/lbs or until bushing begins to compress)
- Bilstein 17mm Lock Nut
- OEM Washer Thing (Mazda P/N 28-774) (Can be subbed by M14 Fender Washer)
- Bottom(largest diameter) nub on Integra Speedthane Bump Stop
- Maruha 20mm Extended Top Hat - Coil Spring Isolator 9.6103G (Glued to underside of Maruha top hat)
- Other OEM Rubber Bushing (the one that fits in the hole in the top hat Mazda P/N 28-776B) (Buy new same P/N bushing or replace with something else?) - 2 3/8-in x 1-1/2-in fender washers (replacing OEM bump stop "cup" Mazda P/N 28-777) - Not sure if these go above or below the cut integra stops? (Lowes P/N 885528 - Twice as thick as M14 Fender Washers - Only use one)
- Integra bump stop cut to 36mm (Maybe cut it at 40-50mm due to extended top hat?)
And lastly the order of the spring components
Coil Spring Isolator (Glued to underside of top-hat) Spring of your choice Spring Washer Coilover Nut
Does a spring washer need to be between the coil spring isolator and the spring? Also where do I put these fender washers? Any suggestions on how much I cut the Integra bump stop as the top hats are only extended 20mm?
Thanks - This should be my last post before I start to assemble these things. Just want to make sure I can put it together once without needing to tear it all down again immediately after.
The Bilstiens when revalved by the right guys can be better or equal to the Xidas. Billy builders, the real pros are hand fitting parts, they're having shims made that are more precise and of better materials than the stamped ones you get in a mass produced shock, spending time dynoing each shock in your set and making tiny shim adjustments to get the pairs matched, and stuff the guy I was considering buying shocks from wouldnt tell me because they all have secret sauce. Its a different product. Xidas you go on 949 click buy and they show up in a week. With custom valved billies you're either sending stock stocks to a guy, waiting a couple months and then they come back, or you have them build off of a circle track billy and you're on the hook for figuring out mounts, either way you've got to figure out your springs.
If internal friction is the parameter, a steel Bilstein isn't going to match a Xida. Not even close actually. Rebuilt with non-standard internals, it still won;t match the low friction of a Xida due to the differences in the cylinder smoothness and hard ano on top of that.
If consistency in valving is the parameter, again a hand built Bilstein can probably match a serial produced Xida. Serial produced Xidas are still hand built pro level shocks with the highest quality internals, super fine tolerances and QC, not "mass produced".
I am not allowed to mention brands as part of my NDA, but Tractive (Xida mfr) supplies internal shock components to major European OEM (car and bike) and most of the race shock companies that are revered here. I have to chuckle when someone assumes their $4,500 singles are superior to Xidas knowing that the some of the critical parts of their shock are supplied by Tractive
We dyno every single shock to make sure they not only match each other, but the master dyno plot for that model.
fb video here from a few weeks ago showing that process:
If the actual shape of the damping force curves is the parameter, I would (and have) put our standard tune up against anything on the planet. Again, assuming that a secret handshake to a skilled shock tuner can somehow discover a "better" valving spec than what we took 20 years or Miata racing experience to develop is erroneous. We have shipped thousands of Xidas. There may be someone that has revalved theirs but we have never heard of one.
Beyond that, steel Bilsteins run hotter by virtue of the sleeve on cylinder configuration. For autocross this may not be a deal breaker. For a track car though, it is a significant factor in performance and service life.
So yeah, you can make steel Billies work very well, but they will never outperform a production Xida on a shock dyno or road course. Of this I am certain.
I saw that post but didn't want to comment and make a **** storm. Emilio is right. The Bilstein DIY setups are dollar for dollar a great deal and the best you can have at X price, not to be confused with the superior shock sets coming from Emilio.
If all thats true than the xidas are still a hell of a deal, rember, I own a set. I'm surprised you get class 3 anno to be smoother than honed steel, its easy to get it to stick to a surface that wasnt glass beaded.
I would have suggested saving the money on the coil spanner. I ended up finding out that an allen key worked just as good. I don't recall what size it was offhand since I had an assortment of them. I think it was 6mm.
Can I get some advice from you suspension experts? I get the upgrading aspect (parts and whatnot). But I don't have a clear understanding of how/when/why to get my MSM Billies (80k miles) revalved.
What is the philosophy behind revalving? Other than leaking, I don't see what the impetus would be.
Looks like upgrading + revalving would end up in the 700 + 400 = $1100 range.
Can I get some advice from you suspension experts? I get the upgrading aspect (parts and whatnot). But I don't have a clear understanding of how/when/why to get my MSM Billies (80k miles) revalved.
What is the philosophy behind revalving? Other than leaking, I don't see what the impetus would be.
Looks like upgrading + revalving would end up in the 700 + 400 = $1100 range.
Thanks!!
Revalve wouldbe if you want to run rates higher than what most of these guys are running in the thread.
12-14-2018, 01:33 PM
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