Trackspeed Engineering 12-tooth crank trigger wheel - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-31-2010, 11:05 AM   #61
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...thread's dead baby, thread's dead.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:38 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
So as I see it my easiest option to get a proper crank wheel is to:
  • grid the TDC tooth off
  • get a Hall sensor from Rock Auto for $35
  • unplug Mr. CAS and throw it in the garbage
  • place CAS "plug" back in the head
  • wire Hall sensor to connector 2E (Mspnp9093)
  • keep it on batch-fire
  • adjust crank wheel setting (can someone please spoon feed this to me?)
  • hit it with the timing light to set timing
  • add ~3* spark advance back in to compensate for the cranks ~3* head-start/stretchy timing belt

Questions:
  • can someone spoon feed me instructions on the crank settings for my mspnp9093?
  • do you love me?


This is pretty much exactly what I plan to do...crank wheel and hall sensor in hand already.

I haven't messed with the crank wheel settings in MS yet but it's supposed to be stupid easy.

This is the first thing I'm doing after COPS *as soon as* I can get my car to fire up. I'll let you know how it goes.





BTW...I heard about Mike's herpes infection in his eye...do I even need to ask how you managed to do that?
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:57 AM   #63
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Let me know when you get those settings because I'm dumb and can't do it alone.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:58 AM   #64
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:33 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Actually it looks like I want this since I'm eliminating the CAS.

There are a few things I still don't understand:
  • Why do I want to invert spark suddenly?
  • How do I measure the trigger position and trigger return position (looks like I have to buy precision equipment)?
  • I guess I have to grind off a non-TDC tooth since MS can't trigger off a missing tooth?
  • Do I need to position at tooth at TDC or not (adjusting cranking angle with a timing light should do this, right...should I start with a protractor to get a ballpark # to start with)?
  • How do we calculate dwell from "trigger return"?
  • Are there enough teeth to run "trigger return"?
  • If MS1 only sees 2-teeth, then I assume we need to time base return since 30*BTD is probably too much?
This is 10x more confusing than I thought it would be. I may have just wasted $100, lol...which is still cheaper than the CAS I'll have to buy.


Last edited by hustler; 08-31-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:31 PM   #66
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So I made a pretty picture; notice that #1 is ground off. Are these educated guesses accurate:
  • Wheel decoder teeth = 12
  • Missing teeth = 1
  • Triggerr A = 8
  • Trigger Return Pos A = 0
  • Trigger B=2
  • Trigger Return Pos B = 0
  • Crank angle will be ~25* depending on the timing light

I'm still not sure about inverting spark and what dwell should be. Am I correct on these numbers? Why can't I add more teeth?

Last edited by hustler; 08-31-2010 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:33 PM   #67
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spark output and dwell should remain the same IIRC.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:38 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
spark output and dwell should remain the same IIRC.
Well...um...a wrong answer is catastrophic, right? I don't like being the first to do things at the cost of $1000 per mistake considering the cost of an MSpnp and COPS, plus parking the car indefinitely.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:52 PM   #69
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I looked for reference to the spark output, and i see:

Quote:
Please note that if you are driving the coils directly from the ECU, as you most likely will be if running wasted spark, then ensure the Spark Settings - Spark Inverted Output = YES
You are not driving the coils from the MS directly, you are still using the ignitors built into the toyota cops to drive the spark. So however your current spark output settings are set they remain the same.

likewise, the dwell just has to do with your coil settings, since you didnt change coils, dont touch it.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:41 PM   #70
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re: timing belt stretch

Go to your car and set the MS to test mode with 10* timing. Use timing light, look at timing marks at idle. Rev to 5000 RPM+, repeat. Is is still at 10*? If so, no prob, if not, your timing table is offset by that much linearly through the rev range.

When you go crank trigger, set it up so it's always at 10* as per above, then fix your timing map as per any error seen above.

re: crank pickup - why not just use the NB one?
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:42 PM   #71
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that's why I use the timing latency code
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:50 PM   #72
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lol, looks like there is no way I'm getting out of buying a $300 CAS if that's even the problem.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:20 PM   #73
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or buy a shitty old used one and cut out either three teeth of one ring, or one tooth of the other and use that signal just to let the MS know where TDC is.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:21 PM   #74
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What's a $300 CAS?
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
or buy a shitty old used one and cut out either three teeth of one ring, or one tooth of the other and use that signal just to let the MS know where TDC is.
Then i have to open up the board. I'm looking for a simple solution here, not learning to solder $800 electronics the week before a track day. I also don't want to buy bigger injectors for the sequential injection and spend another hour on the dyno tuning.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:44 PM   #76
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The missing tooth does not have to be at TDC. You will install the trigger wheel, set the engine to #1 TDC, and count teeth between the missing tooth and sensor. The location of the missing tooth compared to TDC is not important.

Here is the MS1/Extra wheel decoder settings:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/....htm#wheeldecr

MS1/E decoder settings are kind of confusing. Setting this up with an MS2 or MS3 is worlds less complex. Here is a link to the MS1/E decoder spreadsheet, which helps me a lot:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...eeldecoder.xls

There would be no need for hardware modification inside the MSPNP. There would be no need to touch your ignition output settings. There would be no need to retain the stock CAS with an MS1 running this trigger wheel. An MS2, DIYPNP, or MS3 could be set up to run sequential fuel and/or ignition with this trigger wheel and a modified CAS.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:01 PM   #77
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I played with this earlier and its severely added to my confusion:

From spreadsheet:
  • Number of teeth per crank rev 12
  • Number of missing teeth 1
  • Number of cylinders 4
  • Tooth number aligned with sensor at TDC 8
  • Crank angle when missing tooth at sensor 240

shouldn't "crank angle when missing tooth at sensor" be 120? Are my tooth number labels incorrect?
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:06 PM   #78
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Maybe it's BTDC and not ATDC?
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:56 PM   #79
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you know, I have an NA cam sensor that's set up to be a sync pulse only from back when I used it to run sequential fuel on my Tec3. It's just sitting in the back of my head as dead weight....
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:22 PM   #80
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I have a spare CAS or two...I think I even have one that only returns the first trigger, which caused my failaids after swapping in your old motor. You are welcome to any and all.


Also, if you want to avoid costly mistakes with your motor, we can do this on mine first. I'm not running boost, and not too worried about the motor...hehe. This really is the first thing I'm doing after figuring out why the bastard won't fire up on MS2.
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